I’ve only watched the guido-infused reality TV show Jersey Shore in passing, but I know one thing about it through the show’s advertisements. The women there are constantly fighting with each other, both verbally and physically, while the men almost never clash with one another. Why?
I’ve already established that women don’t work well together in non-structured work environments. Where their jobs require them to interact with other co-workers to acquire scarce resources, women butt heads with one another and cause havoc and disorder. It would seem that women have either not evolved to cooperate far beyond the hearth or they have been socialized to compete vigorously with other women.
As commenter bruno pointed out, women also have a hard time living with one another. Female friendships usually can’t stand the test of co-habitation. If a woman secretly wants to obliterate a friendship with a female friend, she should move in with her; acrimony and hatred will naturally follow. Again, I’ll have to rely on anecdotal evidence to elucidate my point.
First off, I can’t think of any guys that I know who have lost friendships after a bad co-habitation experience with another guy. I’m sure it has happened (probably having to do with one roommate sleeping with another’s girlfriend), but I’m not aware of any second-hand stories. Here’s the imbalanced body of evidence showing that women can’t live together:
My girlfriend, K., has had innumerable mutual fallouts with female roommates. Back in her early college years, she was punched in the eye by a crazy broad that she lived with because K. wouldn’t move her car out of the garage (I don’t know who was right or who was wrong in the argument). Needless to say, these two are no longer friends. K.’s last roommate was unhappy with the pattern of air conditioning usage and would communicate her frustration through snarky text messages or stealthily-placed notes in the apartment’s commons area. The notes would read “K., you still owe me $X,” or “Your dishes,” with an arrow pointing towards the sink. I’m not trying to defend K. – she could have very easily been in the wrong – but the handling tactics of the roommate and K.’s responses quickly boiled over to the point where both sides purposely set out to annoy the other.
My mother is, by all accounts, a very patient and friendly woman. She goes with the flow and doesn’t complain about much. But I remember a story she’s told about her time living in the college dormitories. She and a roommate had a falling out – I can’t remember who supposedly started it – because my mom preferred that the toilet paper dangle from over the top of the roll while the roommate preferred it to dangle from below. The friendship was apparently ruined by this minor issue.
A group of four female friends – who I am friends with too – were broken up because one of the girl’s cat would hiss at the other roommates. The hissing cat uncovered a litany of past grievances which dealt with the core basis of their friendships. Like an episode of Survivor, the girls formed coalitions, backbit, talked shit, and one eventually moved out in the middle of the night taking her furniture with her. The girls were once best friends with each other, but most of them no longer speak. Instead of dealing with the initial grievance, the roommates would chatter among themselves or to outside friends. Coldness naturally crept in to each relationship as each roommate learned what the other was saying. This created an impenetrable sheet of ice that could have easily been penetrated through wit, diplomacy, or direct confrontation.
Three other girls at work went from BFF’s to arch-enemies because one roommate had loud sex. One was a virgin who didn’t approve of the sex. Working with all of them, I’d hear three versions of the same story. All of these versions, stemming from these womens’ need to tell the world their business, combined to create another giant cloud that hung over their friendship.
Another girl from work has gone through four separate roommates and now hates all of them. She was best friends with several but now they are all “Bitches” or “cunts” for some stupid slight that I can neither recall nor care about.
The question becomes, what percentage of women residing with other women end their relationships on amicable terms and at the same level of friendship as when they entered their lease? Undoubtedly, this percentage is low – at least relative to men. Why is this?
I have a couple of theories.
Women don’t have senses of humor. Two women is like a mortician’s convention. Three plus is like the mortuary itself.
If a man doesn’t approve of something his male roommate is doing, he’ll humorously jab him using very subtle shaming techniques to drop a hint. “Dood, the sink smells like your mom’s snatch.”
“Is it my turn already?”
“Yeah asshole. Hey, toss me a bear from the fridge while you’re up.”
If one roommate’s rent is past due, the other will directly ask for the money. If one roommate likes to keep the heater on, the other roommate won’t care because “it’s not the end of the world.”
Women don’t do this. They see a problem, they get defensive, they fume, they call friends, they call parents, they post vague snarky messages on Facebook. They do everything but address the problem in a slightly diplomatic and slightly humorous way. In short, they turn a simple interaction into a big deal. The backbiting that ensues begins festering like the mold on the dirty dishes that one of the roommates will now refuse to do “on principle”.
Either evolved through hunter-gatherer’s cooperation or socialized to ignore pettiness, men seem to have a greater innate sense of fairness and objectivity. Men understand that their housemate will do something that pisses them off, and that they will probably do the same thing at some point in time. If men battle it out over every single slight, the situation could actually end violently. Men have developed humor, diplomacy, and subtle shaming techniques to diffuse situations which would otherwise be dangerous.
It is a waste of time and energy to mire oneself in petty domestic conflict. Both sides locking horns over unwashed dishes leads to a sort of Prisoner’s Dilemma were both are left worse off than they would otherwise be. Women don’t diffuse housemate situations very well and they hold grudges. Snark begets snark. Trash talking and gossip begets trash talking and gossip. Each side takes this personally and the situation spirals out of control. Fights ensue. Leases are broken. The song remains the same.
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This is obvious. I’ve always known this.
Women aren’t the saints they’re painted to be. A world run by women would be even more riven by rivalry and spite than a world run by men.
This is obvious to anyone who’s ever dealt with women in group situations.
I have so many stories like this to tell, I don’t know where to start. On the other hand, I have virtually none that include males.
Okay.
One that includes a male (and me). But only one.
Living with men is much easier than living with other women, even women I’m related to.
“it’s not the end of the world.”
chicks do not know how to not win.
guys don’t even fight over petty bullsh–.
my boys and i have all noticed how the chicks on the show totally hate one another. jwow’s only ok b/c snookie is inferior to her. they as a group resent sammy for rightfully thinking they were sh*** friends for writing a note rather than telling her about ron’s indiscretions.
everything for women is about social power. so they fight over bullsh**.
My friendship ended with my best friend after we lived together. In hindsight, the reason for us not getting along seems ridiculously stupid. He was Korean and claimed that I had been eating all his rice, which was a blatant lie, since I only eat Thai rice. This animosity snowballed out of control and I eventually started dating his Mexican ex-girlfriend just to spite him. It turned out that she was hardly worth it, since the sex was terrible. This lead to a series of vindictive retributions that ended up with both of us in jail(not at the same time) and me having to flee the state to escape a Mexican gang that I had burned in an attempt to set him up.
Moral of the story: Don’t mess with an Asian man’s rice.
Gorbachev 01/17/2011 at 2:28 pm
A world run by women would be even more riven by rivalry and spite than a world run by men.
Except that I doubt women would be going to war and raping, pillaging and genociding to the same degree as men have.
Complain about women’s flaws all you want but they will never be as evil as men. Nor as brilliant, daring and creative either.
Women tend to hover in the mediocre middle, men go to extremes.
“Women don’t have senses of humor. Two women is like a mortician’s convention.”
C’mon, Chuck. That’s not fair to morticians. Many of them are actually great with dark humor; after all, they probably have to be or they’d slit their wrists.
I agree with your general argument (that women are extremely petty and passive-aggressive), but I’m not sure roommate enmity is the best context to understand this phenomenon.
Even for men, it’s almost guaranteed you’ll end up hating your roommate. Every little thing they do will start to annoy you to no end. And if you’re not that close to the person to begin with, asking them to stop doing something that they consider completely innocuous can be somewhat uncomfortable.
As for the female pettiness, I knew two girls who were absolutely inseparable in high school. It’s not possible for any two people to be closer than these two were. Freshmen year of college they roomed together and one of them was hanging out with a mutual best friend (they had another best friend to form a trio). So two of them were mocking the third one (never was told why, but I’m sure it was something trivial).
The third one found out, snarkiness ensued. End of the story: they didn’t speak a word to each other for the last month of school despite living in one of those tiny dorm rooms. And I don’t believe they ever spoke again after that.
Re Jersey Shore:
I too found this a great illustration of female pettiness. Glad others have noticed.
@ Sagat;
Please tell me your story is not real, especially the part about there being a difference between Asian and Thai rice! Who knew!
OneSTDV,
I simplified my story for the sake of brevity; it’s actually much more complex than I wrote, but it is ashamedly true. It really did all start with two Asians fighting over rice.
And yes there are different kinds of rice. I only eat Thai jasmine rice. I don’t even remember what kind of rice my roommate had. He had a huge sack that his mother had given him. I cook rice every day and he swore that it was his rice he saw in the rice cooker. That fool couldn’t even tell the difference!
@Sagat,
Koreans claim to be able to tell the minute differences between brands of Korean rice. I know better.
There are some obvious differences between, say, Thai rice, rice from California, Chinese rice(s), and Japanese rice(s); there’s sticky rice, hard rice, fragrant rice, etc.
BUT
Koreans are so Rice-obsessed (“BAP” – meaning a general word for “food” – specifically means “rice”), that there’s a saying in Korean – “With rice and kimchee, I have a meal.” I used to be suspicious, but I *STILL* get cravings for rice and kimchee. Good, grainy, stinky kimchee with extra vinegar and pepper, the kind you get in small towns.
That said, the honest truth is; I know how rice manufacturers work in Korea. They mix and match all the time; there are really only 3 basic kinds of rice, and they’re the obvious: sticky versus non-sticky. They get LABELED differently.
I’ve sat and herd expositions on how X rice is different, how Y rice is just that but more X, how it tastes better, how it’s got the right texture, how it takes less time to cook, etc.
The truth? Like all consumers, there’s bias. People think there are distinctions where there are none.
I’ve seen one factory where it’s sorted. It gets different labels. But… it’s the same rice.
And then I’ve sat with Koreans tell me how each tastes different.
The truth?
He THOUGHT he could tell, because they all think they can.
But they can’t.
(SSShhhhhhh – don’t tell the Koreans on me.)
The same goes for wine snobs.
The truth is, there are wines from California that are virtually indistinguishable from wines in France or Australia.
The few unique wines I’ve had can be listed:
- Australian Shiraz is very distinctive from other Shiraz; the chemistry of the grape is affected by soils in Australia one guy told me.
- Bordeaux is extremely characteristic, though it tends to get confused with some Italian wines.
- Icewine is a product from Canada, and tastes like nothing I’ve ever had anywhere, even in Germany, where they make something similar. It’s super-sweet without being sickly. I’m told it’s because of the snow.
Most wines I’ve had are variants of the same thing. There’s some quality difference, but the French snobs who think that France produces the best wines often can’t tell that the great wine they’re drinking isn’t French.
It’s why wine expos are often tightly controlled: Labels need to be shown prominently. Judges are asked HOW GOOD the wine is; they’re not asked if they can tell WHAT it is, WHERE it’s from, and other identifying factors.
I’m sure some people can tell. But not many.
The vast majority of product-chauvinists in every society and with every food product are speaking about illusions, by and large.
Doesn’t matter if it’s wine, rice, cheese or soju.
And believe me, I’ve had the debates about soju. Or Makgoli. Take off the label and reverse the contents, and almost everyone won’t notice the difference.
It’s all status-whoring or false identification or false attribution.
Gorbachev 01/17/2011 at 7:57 pm
@Sagat,
Koreans claim to be able to tell the minute differences between brands of Korean rice. I know better.
Years ago I heard of a study that claimed Koreans have the most discriminating sense of smell of all people they tested.
@Rock Granite
Years ago I heard of a study that claimed Koreans have the most discriminating sense of smell of all people they tested.
Sure, sure.
I’ve lived there. Believe me: if they can discriminate more, then it’s not by much.
Best thing to do is test it. Switch some shitty soju for the good stuff, see if 90% of the people even notice.
“preferred that the toilet paper dangle from over the top of the roll while the roommate preferred it to dangle from below.”
Minor issue? Underdanglers should be shot!
Gotta agree with jerry. What kind of sick bastards underdangle their toilet rolls?
“I can’t think of any guys that I know who have lost friendships after a bad co-habitation experience with another guy.”
I knew two sets of guys (i.e. four guys) in college who were buddies before they became roommates, and bad cohabitation issues broke up the friendship.
Long time later (post college) I went over to this woman’s place, and she went into a long tirade about the slovenliness of her (absent at the time) housemate. I asked for an example of the housemate’s unacceptable behavior. She took me to the sink and pointed to a rinsed-out coffee cup — “THAT should have been in the dishwasher!” Mmmmmkey then, slight overreaction…
“Except that I doubt women would be going to war and raping, pillaging and genociding to the same degree as men have.”
Don’t count on it. Throughout history, a major incitement for men to go to war has been the women of the tribe badgering the men to go kill, pillage and rape the other tribe. If women couldn’t get men to do their dirty work, they’d do it themselves.
“Women Can’t Live Together Either”
And yet, unlike men, they’re still able to unite against anything that may threaten their ability to exploit men and men’s resources, say laws which entitle them to a man’s money, property and children. And god forbid they ever demand any accountability for crimes women commit, like husband-murder, child-murder or a jilted lover falsely accusing her boyfriend/one night stand/husband of rape. Then it’s all for one and one for all, the sistahood knows where it counts.
Jersey Shore, while if not totally scripted, is certainly staged. Guidettes performing for the camera; whoever is most obnoxious gets the most face time. Squeaky wheel stuff, plain and simple.
Its all about the drama.
Since you use the Jersey Shore, let’s use prison. Male prisons are racially divided into gangs. Fights break out all the time.
Female prisons have no race-related gangs and many of the females get along, while the males don’t. It’s men who’re trying to force women into conflict.
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It is easy. Women are more territorial than men. They are more obsessed about home. I guess that, while Paleo men hunted in team and were absent for days, women stayed at home.
.
This is why women see home as an extension of their body, something which they have to be in control of. They have to decide every detail of how things are at home and nobody can interfere. This is why every home’s decoration is decided by the woman. Men don’t give a damn about if the curtains are pink or blue so they let the woman decide.
.
When several women share the same home, the drama is assured.
Germans (and not just Canadians) make eiswein. Sweet, delicious, make you think that fucking the buergermeister’s wife is a good idea eiswein…
OK, back on target: women adhere to the Alpha paradigm. It’s the reason why an all-female dormitory is far more peaceful than an all-male dormitory (hint: more than a dozen women in one area reveals the dominant female, whereas more than a dozen males in an area reveals the dominant male and the lesser but still potentially dominant males in the area). OTOH, a group of fewer than 4 women quickly devolves to a literal “I’m the best.”"No, I’m the best!” cvalcade of multilayered fuckery, whereas a group of equivalent males has a tendency to sub-divide into “He’s the most ‘equal’/generic of us, we’ll tier ourselves into our specialties and see what happens from there” accord.
I shared a 4 bedroom/4 male living space in which everything broke down into these stats within a week: MaMu gets to cook as much as he likes, “Eduardo” charms the ladies, “Seamus” handles the tech and “Beau” warns us of upcoming inspections.
In our situation: I could cook, “Eduardo” knew how to convince Polish women to drop their panties (for almost anyone, no joke), “Seamus” was a computer geek and “Beau” had a couple of commanding officers wrapped around his finger. We sat down to home-cooked meals, working computers and at-call pussy for a full year without stepping on anyone’s toes.
OTOH, our across-the-hall flatmates were all women. Not even a weekend could go by without hearing about every single flaw, misstep, accusation and error that one or two of them played against the other (to the point that 2 of us received sympathy/gratitude lays from the ladies in question when “Seamus” started dating the most egregious offender (because it got her out of their area.)
“Female prisons have no race-related gangs and many of the females get along, while the males don’t.”
the only women who can live in peace with other women are criminals, ok then
re wines…
Australia is basically made of iron, including the soil. If you fly over the country you’ll see what I mean. It’s red from the Great Divide on the east coast all the way to the Indian Ocean and looks distinctly as though it’s rusting away.
Icewine is made from grapes that grow in the snow. They are consequently higher in sugars for survival purposes(the grapes that is).
re wines, take 5
I never liked wines that much and I’ve always hated wine-snobs but I will tell you this: if you like sweet wines, a genuine hungarian “tokaji aszu” beats every other wine, hands down. You should absolutely try it at least once. Go for the higher quality ones. The quality is indicated by numbers from 3 up to 6 (obviously the higher the better) and there’s an even better category called “essence”.
I looked around the web and I found this:
“(…) this remarkable wine, as thick as motor oil, with a concentration of flavours and aromas that has to be experienced to be believed. This is not so much a wine as we usually understand it, but a kind of quintessence of the grape. Absolutely mindblowing.”
http://www.finestandrarest.com/tokaji.html
I can attest to that. Me and my pals used to say it’s the sunshine squeezed out of raisins.
Be warned, it’s sweet
ps. the website contains lots of interesting info, you should pay them a visit if you’re interested in stuff like this:
“Another appreciative connoisseur was Thomas Jefferson who imported and served ‘rich Tokaji’ (‘for which I paid a guinea a bottle’) at his presidential banquets in the early 1800’s.”
But of course you don’t have to pay a fortune for a bottle, the website offers rarities.
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“If a man doesn’t approve of something his male roommate is doing, he’ll humorously jab him using very subtle shaming techniques to drop a hint. “Dood, the sink smells like your mom’s snatch.”
“Is it my turn already?”
“Yeah asshole. Hey, toss me a bear from the fridge while you’re up.”
No, “dropping hints” is only how it’s done in the U.S., in the rest of the world the script is simpler:
“Please clean your dishes from the sink, they are starting to smell.”
“OK sure thing, sorry.”