Luke O’Neil wrote a piece at Slate the other day discussing the marketing strategy of Planet Fitness. O’Neil described the gym as a Curves that allows men which, of course, put Amanda Marcotte’s granny panties in a bunch (more on that tommorrow). The gym’s business model involves disencouraging “lunkheads” from acting like lunkheads through various shaming techniques – setting off a “lunk alarm” when people drop heavy weights on the ground, chastising people for grunting, and, if O’Neil’s experience is indicative of the strategy, chiding people for sweating too much. This is an example of Planet Fitness’ marketing ploy:
I thought this was interesting because a.) I can see it working as a business plan and b.) it reminded me of a strategy that Guinness is employing in its beer selling efforts. Guinness marketing director Randy DeLeon had this to say about the company’s strategy:
It was scary. I was at a small back alley pub. The kind where you don’t get a big crowd and can just sit and be. I was enjoying a pint of Guinness at room temperature as it should be, when all of a sudden, these popped collar, American frat boys come wandering in. I thought they were simply lost trying to find the local rave where they could slip roofies to sorority chicks. But they came and sat two stools down from me. And you know what they said? ‘Four Guinness’ please.’ I spit my Guinness all over the bar. When did douchey frat boys start drinking Guinness?
DeLeon saw that fickle frat boys were latching on to Guinness which would then turn off their core customer – the contrarian Middle Life male whose only purpose in life is to complain when Guinness isn’t poured “like its s’posed to be” – which involves the beer being pouring in a multistage process and allowed to age on the bar mat for about 15 minutes before final consumption. Basically, Guinness wants to cater to its core snob customer base and doesn’t want its brand to be roofied and raped by douchey frat boys. Their strategy, like Planet Fitness’, is a negative one in the sense that they build up their brand by telling us what they are not rather than through the traditional method of telling us what they are.
To do this, Guinness even developed a strategy of having the awkward, goofy, beanpoled, redheaded, unhip, uncool former NBA player Bill Walton as their spokeman.
So what we have here is a strategy to marginal “lunkheads” and “douchey frat boys” – basically the core constituency of the dude set. While I can’t say that I’m a dude in these ways or that dudes of this nature don’t sometimes annoy me, but its curious to me that instead of just saying “bye” to their particular customer base, places like Planet Fitness – and Guinness to a lesser degree – have to make a statement of differentiation as they walk out the door. It’s not “I think I should go in a different direction, bye”, it’s “You’re a fucking small-dick piece of shit loser that I’m going to publicly ridicule in order to make money off your back…Peace.” One strategy is more hostile than the other.
I don’t mind “lunkheads” at my gym at all. Not that they’re lunkheads really; there are cliques of very athletic high school boys, varsity wrestlers and lacrosse players as far as I can tell from their conversations. Also, advanced weightlifters of all ages, many being off-duty cops.
Having people who are serious about the project around you is good for morale and pumps me up for my workout. As long as they don’t sound like orgamsing mooses, I have no problem with their grunting, puffing, or weight dropping. It adds to the vibe, in fact.
Now, the serious players are in the freeweights room. Though on occasion classmate girl-groupies of the aforementioned varsity athletes will swish and spread their scent on through the freeweights room and angle for the boys’ attention. When they giggle and try to have the boys help them with the equipment, the dudes tease them and chase them off. Yeah, they young ones have game.
The machines room is for girls and middle aged amateurs of all three genders: male, female, and can’t-tell-under-their-fat. To qualify that: girls are mostly confined to the cardio room and stretching/abs mats.
Now, there is one thing I don’t care for at the gym. Well, a couple of things. One, cell-phone talking in the workout areas. My gym bans it, and I will ask someone to go out into the hallway if they’re talking. Two, why the fuck can’t some duded chew gum with their yap closed? Three, and this is always the old fucks in the locker room or the sauna: cover that disgusting thing. We’re not in a san francisco bathhouse.
Next thing you know those frat boys will head to the jukebox and play “Paranoid Android”.
[Chuck: Hey fuck you man.]
Guinness was a pretty good choice for beer circa 1989, when your other choices consisted of MGB and, if you were really luck, Lowenbrau. In the current market it doesn’t do all that much for me. And it’s weak as piss. 4.1%.
I largely agree. If you haven’t already, please read the link to Marcotte’s piece. Her level of whining is completely ridiculous. It’s the same old, “there are big scary men over there and they make me insecure about my body” argument. Get over it. Men have their own type of insecurity about not being as big and strong as some of the “lunkheads” in the gym, but, as you said, the ones who stay around use that as motivation to get bigger and stronger (if that’s their goal).
I’ve worked out for years, and I can say that I’ve only been distracted by grunting only a handful of times. One was this Lebanese guy I used to work with who thought that we were friends (he was an idiot who did coke in the bathrooms at work and would often forget to wipe his fucking nose) and would come up and talk to me at the gym. He’d grunt like a woman giving birth while doing free weight chest presses. The annoyance on my part was due to my feeling that he was grunting and groaning because he saw the big guys doing it while struggling with big weight and he was engaging in some sort of perverse acclimation technique.
One man at my old gym used to always be on his cell phone. He would put it down to do some reps and then resume the conversation. He held the bench press record at the gym so I don’t think anyone wanted to confront him about it.
Hey, I really like Radiohead There’s no denying, though, that lot’s of people who gain a sense of their identity through music get awfully peeved when a broader spectrum of people start liking their favorite band. You’re likely then to hear things such as, “But I saw Ian MacKaye play at his fifth grade bake sale!”
I gotcha. My knee jerk reaction was just to defend anything Radiohead. And it’s true, Radiohead and all sorts of other musical groups and genres engage in this same type of negative strategy – this “we’re not them” attitude. It’s commercial tribalism,
[Chuck: Out of your league. You may want to feel out different venues. Gigolo.com...MercyFuck.com...TheUnpickyPenis.com might be good places for you to start.]
Skinny White Yuppies?
Upwardly mobile black men with natural muscle tone who dont really need to work but when they do …………..my god?!?!?
Ladies: whats the scoop on this place – hot or not?
The first gym I worked out at was kind of like jumping into the deep end – lots of construction workers, truck drivers, even a few guys who did pro wrestling on the side.
During my first few months, whenever two people were laughing I figured it was about me.
But I got more comfortable because I knew I was working hard, doing the exercises properly, and being consistent. And while I obviously never became part of the in crowd there (I don’t exactly fit in with the construction workers), I occasionally would get a nod from one of them or a friendly hello.
And as for PA’s description of his gym – there’s generally two areas of every gym: an area for free weights and an area for cardio. Guess which area my friends and I referred to as the “pussy room” (it has a double meaning BTW).
Machines have their use of course, primarily in keeping beginners out of the freeweights room. Our trainers outright discourage novices from going in there. I was a beginner once too. My trainer had me focus on correct form on the stationary equipment… it was only a year later I went freeweights, primarily dumbells for the upper body.
“The first gym I worked out at was kind of like jumping into the deep end – lots of construction workers, truck drivers, even a few guys who did pro wrestling on the side.”
when i first started going i was intmidated as shit and tried to go when it was slow. now that i’m a little more acclimated and can lift really big on some things, i like to go when its busier.
As I understand it, there are a great many “women’s fitness centers” specifically designed for, and marketed to, women so that they don’t have to feel uncomfortable around grunting lunkheads. Amanda should fuck off and join Curves or something. Meanwhile, given that there are gyms for women, what’s wrong with a gym designed for, and marketed to, men — even lunkheads? Lunkheads don’t have a right to their own gym for some reason?
i’m not even sure what amanda marcotte is upset about in the article, to be honest. there’s some tone of righteous indignation but i can’t identify what she’s criticizing since she keeps on shifting gear and all with the same consistent snarkiness. she’s criticizing planet fitness for wanting to make money, discussing women’s anxieties, and responding to this guy for addressing the lunkhead discrimination?
tangentially, if i have the option (depending on what location i’m at), i’ll take advantage of a women’s only side if there is one. because cute guys are too distracting at the gym, especially when i’m not wearing make-up and my hair looks like shit. also because it’s just irritating having to repeatedly adjust the weight machines. marcotte points out women’s insecurities in her article, but i figure everyone hates working out in front of each other equally, even isolated to the women’s only section. i tweeted once (as a joke), “there’s a hot girl that goes to my gym. what a bitch.”
oh, if the issue is that it’s marketed to men, that’s absurd. there are a shit-ton of women’s only gyms and the gym of which i’m a member is co-ed, but at their larger, swankier locations often have a “women’s only” side. the other side isn’t “men’s only” if you couldn’t guess already, it’s merely co-ed. this is quite common with the bigger gym chains.
I think your point at the end is important – I too think the real reason that the body builders are pissed is not because Planet Gym is trying to create a space for non-body-builders, but because they are being excluded particularly by a group they feel should have their back. Body-builders are somewhat ostracized in society: people think they are scary, dumb, angry, dangerous, etc. Thus it’s only natural that the gym becomes sort of a haven, because it’s a place full of people who are either doing the same thing or should at least be able to appreciate the hard work involved.
So, I mean, to me it doesn’t seem like the Planet Fitness stuff is particularly mean, especially compared to some of the ribbing jock-type guys can do to each other, but I can still imagine how it could feel like a particularly low blow. Like the MRAs felt when Neil Strauss had his somewhat pro-feminist interview a while back.
Actually Chuck, my point was made within my own post on fitness and the like. My view is that gyms and so forth are a waste of time and money for most Men, and that they can be fit by leading an active life, getting some weights and a heavy bag to use at home, and getting out and walking more.
Your point is off-topic. While my post is superficially about working out at the gym it is titled “Dude Avoidance” which speaks to a marketing trend whereby companies are trying to distance themselves from a certain cohort of men.
Chuck I have a must watch video for you here, this is the most extreme display of white guilt ever captured on film, sickening yet undeniably hilarious:
While trying to promote ginger pride he brings much shame to your kin.
“Your point is off-topic. While my post is superficially about working out at the gym it is titled “Dude Avoidance” which speaks to a marketing trend whereby companies are trying to distance themselves from a certain cohort of men.”
O: Yes, I agree with you that our respective posts are dealing with two completely different things, though both, however tangentially, are speaking to Men’s fitness. My post is about Men being completely proactive; yours, is to merely complain some more. Surprise, surprise.
[Chuck: Complaint? It's an observation and a critique. Get a grip.]
I know many, many Black folk who drink Guiness beer, and has no intention of stopping no matter what Giuiness themselves thought of it or anyone else. They like the brew, and they drink it, end of.
[Chuck: Who said anything about black folk?]
And the same can apply here with your latest whinefest. If a gym is treating “lunkheads” badly, said “lunkheads” can and should divest their monetary support for said gym(s). I am quite sure there are other gyms out there that would be most happy to take said “lunkheads” business. In fact, I’m pretty sure there’s a business opportunity there, in catering to the socalled “lunkhead” crowd. Nothing wrong with that, right?
[Chuck: Didn't read the post, as usual. This is a discussion about businesses running away from lunkheads. It's a strategy. People discuss strategies, and they discuss rationale and ethics behind such strategies. Where's the complaint?]
Anyway, yea, you’re onto something. Your topic is different a bit from mine.
And that was why I posted the link to my post above.
DO SOMETHING CHUCK. If you don’t like the world you see, do something about it.
Chuck,
What’s the point of discussing business strategies if nothing comes of it at the end of the day? Seems to me that there’s a great opportunity for some enterprising person who really feels passionately about the plight of “lunkheads” to open up gyms that are friendly to them. Agree?
See Chuck, it seems to me that you just want to whine and bitch about how them nasty feminists are taking away yet more toys White guys like. You need to take a page out of the rappers’ books and simply go on ahead and do your thing. Screw what “they” think. So what if the hipsters and feminists don’t want “real Men” in their gyms? Let em have em! Simply build one of your own.
Are we learning yet? Men whining ain’t a good look, chief.
Are we not to discuss anything, just ignore the world because we can avoid it?
Seriously, Obsidian,
If *YOU* don’t wish to engage in discussion, please just (excuse my language) go the fuck away.
if you’re not going to go away, please say something useful. Once. Or twice. You’re a walking caricature of yourself.
And on the actual issue, …
It’s a clear power grab by women. They’re supporting a business. Women are delicate, helpless little flowers that don’t want real exercisers (males being the most threatening kind) around. Their wittle feewings are so fragile that they need to be kept separate.
Some company is pandering to these hothouse delicacies.
The libertarian in me says: Fine. Businesses do what they feel like doing.
On the other hand, it’s absolutely fine to point out hypocrisies, harangue them publicly, humiliate them and call it “fat farm workout jungle” or “Girly gym”.
Those are equally legitimate.
What really bothers me about all of this is the “I have a right to not be offended by anything ever and there’s nothing more important than my personal feelings.”
That’s distinct from feminism and bullshit power plays. A lot of wussy people without any emotional resources are able to pull shit like this and bitch and whine.
Where are the People of the Greatest Generation? The tough men and women who beat back the Nazis?
Fuck, we’re a country of delicate little pansies.
How can we possibly respect “women” (should read “little whiny babies”) who refuse to shoulder some strength of ego?
The real threat to the gains made by feminism for women is this tendency to fall back behind “You can’t offend me!” Special Status.
There are no set contract in the sense that you are ctmeitomd for years, or months.You are obligated to give a 35 bank day notice to cancel, you can do monthly ACH draft or Semi-Month or Yearly.There are monthly membership fees and Yearly fee.Pricing is done over the phone at 782.5772 additional questions should be directed to
I don’t mind “lunkheads” at my gym at all. Not that they’re lunkheads really; there are cliques of very athletic high school boys, varsity wrestlers and lacrosse players as far as I can tell from their conversations. Also, advanced weightlifters of all ages, many being off-duty cops.
Having people who are serious about the project around you is good for morale and pumps me up for my workout. As long as they don’t sound like orgamsing mooses, I have no problem with their grunting, puffing, or weight dropping. It adds to the vibe, in fact.
Now, the serious players are in the freeweights room. Though on occasion classmate girl-groupies of the aforementioned varsity athletes will swish and spread their scent on through the freeweights room and angle for the boys’ attention. When they giggle and try to have the boys help them with the equipment, the dudes tease them and chase them off. Yeah, they young ones have game.
The machines room is for girls and middle aged amateurs of all three genders: male, female, and can’t-tell-under-their-fat. To qualify that: girls are mostly confined to the cardio room and stretching/abs mats.
Now, there is one thing I don’t care for at the gym. Well, a couple of things. One, cell-phone talking in the workout areas. My gym bans it, and I will ask someone to go out into the hallway if they’re talking. Two, why the fuck can’t some duded chew gum with their yap closed? Three, and this is always the old fucks in the locker room or the sauna: cover that disgusting thing. We’re not in a san francisco bathhouse.
That’s what *I* tink!
Next thing you know those frat boys will head to the jukebox and play “Paranoid Android”.
[Chuck: Hey fuck you man.]
Guinness was a pretty good choice for beer circa 1989, when your other choices consisted of MGB and, if you were really luck, Lowenbrau. In the current market it doesn’t do all that much for me. And it’s weak as piss. 4.1%.
PA:
I largely agree. If you haven’t already, please read the link to Marcotte’s piece. Her level of whining is completely ridiculous. It’s the same old, “there are big scary men over there and they make me insecure about my body” argument. Get over it. Men have their own type of insecurity about not being as big and strong as some of the “lunkheads” in the gym, but, as you said, the ones who stay around use that as motivation to get bigger and stronger (if that’s their goal).
I’ve worked out for years, and I can say that I’ve only been distracted by grunting only a handful of times. One was this Lebanese guy I used to work with who thought that we were friends (he was an idiot who did coke in the bathrooms at work and would often forget to wipe his fucking nose) and would come up and talk to me at the gym. He’d grunt like a woman giving birth while doing free weight chest presses. The annoyance on my part was due to my feeling that he was grunting and groaning because he saw the big guys doing it while struggling with big weight and he was engaging in some sort of perverse acclimation technique.
One man at my old gym used to always be on his cell phone. He would put it down to do some reps and then resume the conversation. He held the bench press record at the gym so I don’t think anyone wanted to confront him about it.
Amanda’s piece is in good fun I believe.
Lara:
no way it’s in good fun. there’s nothing fun about that chick. she truly has a beef about women being “made” to feel insecure in the gym.
Hey, I really like Radiohead
There’s no denying, though, that lot’s of people who gain a sense of their identity through music get awfully peeved when a broader spectrum of people start liking their favorite band. You’re likely then to hear things such as, “But I saw Ian MacKaye play at his fifth grade bake sale!”
Janus:
I gotcha. My knee jerk reaction was just to defend anything Radiohead. And it’s true, Radiohead and all sorts of other musical groups and genres engage in this same type of negative strategy – this “we’re not them” attitude. It’s commercial tribalism,
I’d have a hard time defending some of Thom Yorke’s ’90s hairstyles, but I appreciate your loyalty nonetheless.
[Chuck: I'd have an easier time defending his fucked up eye than his 90s hair.]
Is Planet Fitness a cool place to pick up men?
[Chuck: Depends on what you mean by 'men'.]
What’s their demographic?
[Chuck: Out of your league. You may want to feel out different venues. Gigolo.com...MercyFuck.com...TheUnpickyPenis.com might be good places for you to start.]
Skinny White Yuppies?
Upwardly mobile black men with natural muscle tone who dont really need to work but when they do …………..my god?!?!?
Ladies: whats the scoop on this place – hot or not?
The first gym I worked out at was kind of like jumping into the deep end – lots of construction workers, truck drivers, even a few guys who did pro wrestling on the side.
During my first few months, whenever two people were laughing I figured it was about me.
But I got more comfortable because I knew I was working hard, doing the exercises properly, and being consistent. And while I obviously never became part of the in crowd there (I don’t exactly fit in with the construction workers), I occasionally would get a nod from one of them or a friendly hello.
And as for PA’s description of his gym – there’s generally two areas of every gym: an area for free weights and an area for cardio. Guess which area my friends and I referred to as the “pussy room” (it has a double meaning BTW).
The gyms I’m familiar with have three major areas: freeweights, machines, and cardio equipment.
OK yes, machines too.
Machines have their use of course, primarily in keeping beginners out of the freeweights room. Our trainers outright discourage novices from going in there. I was a beginner once too. My trainer had me focus on correct form on the stationary equipment… it was only a year later I went freeweights, primarily dumbells for the upper body.
“The first gym I worked out at was kind of like jumping into the deep end – lots of construction workers, truck drivers, even a few guys who did pro wrestling on the side.”
when i first started going i was intmidated as shit and tried to go when it was slow. now that i’m a little more acclimated and can lift really big on some things, i like to go when its busier.
As I understand it, there are a great many “women’s fitness centers” specifically designed for, and marketed to, women so that they don’t have to feel uncomfortable around grunting lunkheads. Amanda should fuck off and join Curves or something. Meanwhile, given that there are gyms for women, what’s wrong with a gym designed for, and marketed to, men — even lunkheads? Lunkheads don’t have a right to their own gym for some reason?
“women are under far more pressure to not just be not-overweight but to be svelte.” We know one thing about Amanda Marcotte – she’s blind.
i’m not even sure what amanda marcotte is upset about in the article, to be honest. there’s some tone of righteous indignation but i can’t identify what she’s criticizing since she keeps on shifting gear and all with the same consistent snarkiness. she’s criticizing planet fitness for wanting to make money, discussing women’s anxieties, and responding to this guy for addressing the lunkhead discrimination?
tangentially, if i have the option (depending on what location i’m at), i’ll take advantage of a women’s only side if there is one. because cute guys are too distracting at the gym, especially when i’m not wearing make-up and my hair looks like shit. also because it’s just irritating having to repeatedly adjust the weight machines. marcotte points out women’s insecurities in her article, but i figure everyone hates working out in front of each other equally, even isolated to the women’s only section. i tweeted once (as a joke), “there’s a hot girl that goes to my gym. what a bitch.”
oh, if the issue is that it’s marketed to men, that’s absurd. there are a shit-ton of women’s only gyms and the gym of which i’m a member is co-ed, but at their larger, swankier locations often have a “women’s only” side. the other side isn’t “men’s only” if you couldn’t guess already, it’s merely co-ed. this is quite common with the bigger gym chains.
On Fitness, Focus & Footwork: More Fundaments Of Solid GAME
http://obsidianraw.bravejournal.com/entry/66933
O.
Obsidian,
But what do you think about the topic discussed in my post?
I think your point at the end is important – I too think the real reason that the body builders are pissed is not because Planet Gym is trying to create a space for non-body-builders, but because they are being excluded particularly by a group they feel should have their back. Body-builders are somewhat ostracized in society: people think they are scary, dumb, angry, dangerous, etc. Thus it’s only natural that the gym becomes sort of a haven, because it’s a place full of people who are either doing the same thing or should at least be able to appreciate the hard work involved.
So, I mean, to me it doesn’t seem like the Planet Fitness stuff is particularly mean, especially compared to some of the ribbing jock-type guys can do to each other, but I can still imagine how it could feel like a particularly low blow. Like the MRAs felt when Neil Strauss had his somewhat pro-feminist interview a while back.
Actually Chuck, my point was made within my own post on fitness and the like. My view is that gyms and so forth are a waste of time and money for most Men, and that they can be fit by leading an active life, getting some weights and a heavy bag to use at home, and getting out and walking more.
DO you agree or disagree with that?
O.
Obsidian,
Your point is off-topic. While my post is superficially about working out at the gym it is titled “Dude Avoidance” which speaks to a marketing trend whereby companies are trying to distance themselves from a certain cohort of men.
Chuck I have a must watch video for you here, this is the most extreme display of white guilt ever captured on film, sickening yet undeniably hilarious:
While trying to promote ginger pride he brings much shame to your kin.
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“Your point is off-topic. While my post is superficially about working out at the gym it is titled “Dude Avoidance” which speaks to a marketing trend whereby companies are trying to distance themselves from a certain cohort of men.”
O: Yes, I agree with you that our respective posts are dealing with two completely different things, though both, however tangentially, are speaking to Men’s fitness. My post is about Men being completely proactive; yours, is to merely complain some more. Surprise, surprise.
[Chuck: Complaint? It's an observation and a critique. Get a grip.]
I know many, many Black folk who drink Guiness beer, and has no intention of stopping no matter what Giuiness themselves thought of it or anyone else. They like the brew, and they drink it, end of.
[Chuck: Who said anything about black folk?]
And the same can apply here with your latest whinefest. If a gym is treating “lunkheads” badly, said “lunkheads” can and should divest their monetary support for said gym(s). I am quite sure there are other gyms out there that would be most happy to take said “lunkheads” business. In fact, I’m pretty sure there’s a business opportunity there, in catering to the socalled “lunkhead” crowd. Nothing wrong with that, right?
[Chuck: Didn't read the post, as usual. This is a discussion about businesses running away from lunkheads. It's a strategy. People discuss strategies, and they discuss rationale and ethics behind such strategies. Where's the complaint?]
Anyway, yea, you’re onto something. Your topic is different a bit from mine.
And that was why I posted the link to my post above.
DO SOMETHING CHUCK. If you don’t like the world you see, do something about it.
[Chuck: OK Obsidiot.]
O.
Is bill walton’s son going to replace Kobe?
Chuck,
What’s the point of discussing business strategies if nothing comes of it at the end of the day? Seems to me that there’s a great opportunity for some enterprising person who really feels passionately about the plight of “lunkheads” to open up gyms that are friendly to them. Agree?
See Chuck, it seems to me that you just want to whine and bitch about how them nasty feminists are taking away yet more toys White guys like. You need to take a page out of the rappers’ books and simply go on ahead and do your thing. Screw what “they” think. So what if the hipsters and feminists don’t want “real Men” in their gyms? Let em have em! Simply build one of your own.
Are we learning yet? Men whining ain’t a good look, chief.
O.
WTF.
Is this the same shit Obsidian always spews?
Are we not to discuss anything, just ignore the world because we can avoid it?
Seriously, Obsidian,
If *YOU* don’t wish to engage in discussion, please just (excuse my language) go the fuck away.
if you’re not going to go away, please say something useful. Once. Or twice. You’re a walking caricature of yourself.
And on the actual issue, …
It’s a clear power grab by women. They’re supporting a business. Women are delicate, helpless little flowers that don’t want real exercisers (males being the most threatening kind) around. Their wittle feewings are so fragile that they need to be kept separate.
Some company is pandering to these hothouse delicacies.
The libertarian in me says: Fine. Businesses do what they feel like doing.
On the other hand, it’s absolutely fine to point out hypocrisies, harangue them publicly, humiliate them and call it “fat farm workout jungle” or “Girly gym”.
Those are equally legitimate.
What really bothers me about all of this is the “I have a right to not be offended by anything ever and there’s nothing more important than my personal feelings.”
That’s distinct from feminism and bullshit power plays. A lot of wussy people without any emotional resources are able to pull shit like this and bitch and whine.
Where are the People of the Greatest Generation? The tough men and women who beat back the Nazis?
Fuck, we’re a country of delicate little pansies.
How can we possibly respect “women” (should read “little whiny babies”) who refuse to shoulder some strength of ego?
The real threat to the gains made by feminism for women is this tendency to fall back behind “You can’t offend me!” Special Status.
My opinion:
Fuck off.
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There are no set contract in the sense that you are ctmeitomd for years, or months.You are obligated to give a 35 bank day notice to cancel, you can do monthly ACH draft or Semi-Month or Yearly.There are monthly membership fees and Yearly fee.Pricing is done over the phone at 782.5772 additional questions should be directed to
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