I’ll lay out the common sense argument in favor of Voter ID bills. I’ll assume that someone with a PhD in Obfuscation will have written some sophisticated tome which will refute the commonsense argument.
Al Sharpton has attached himself to anti-Voter ID legislation suggesting that such laws which require voters to show a picture ID are inherently racist. Instead of interpreting blacks’ relative lack of ID as a failure on the part of said blacks, Sharpton looks at legislation which requires ID that blacks tend not to have as being racist. To state it a different way, Sharpton thinks that the democratic process is not working around blacks while supporters of the Voter ID bill think that those groups who tend not to get ID i.e. blacks aren’t working around the democratic process.
But if principled democracy upholds “one (wo)man, one vote” a corollary to that would be a rejection of “one (wo)man, multiple votes.” If that is the democratic ideal then we should start with the principle first and then work backwards. Matching a voter to their place of registration and ensuring that one person can’t vote multiple times or under a false name or in a different city or state is imperative.
Rational or not, voting is an act of civic participation. To vote is to act in some small way. It shows an initiative to get out and vote which means to take part in the democratic process. Requiring an ID for voting is merely a pre-thought to the act of voting (and other forms of civic participation). If voting requires one to physically go to the ballot then going to get a photo ID is a pre-thought to the same act. And that process vets a voter by doing all of the leg work required to ensure that someone is who they say they are.
So if one does buy in to the democratic process – as Sharpton does – he should also buy in to ensuring that the process is legitimate. The debate is the perfect example of the difference between liberals (unconstrained vision) versus conservatives (constrained vision). Liberals are concerned with results-goals; conservatives look at process-goals. A more commonsense view – which is held by conservative types – is to ensure that the democratic process rests on sturdy ground – that one vote can be attributed to one person.
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I have difficulty comprehending myriad legal arguments, but this is the one that completely vexes me. It’s a damn ID. Liberals don’t have issue with showing ID for anything else and that leads me to assume nefarious motives with regard to voting. Cashing checks usually requires ID. Using cards, including EBT, can require ID. Why is it only bad when it comes to voting?
Yep. Vote fraud is a little trickier with Voter ID, so the Dems don’t like it. That you must have an ID to drive a car, buy alcohol or cigs, rent a car, cash a check, and whatever doesn’t matter. And their argument that “poor people don’t have ID” is nonsense. Everyone that gets ANY kind of gov’t assistance has ID, often issued free of charge.
Show me 1 case of wide spread “voter fraud” and I’ll show you a Republican that was convicted of it.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120204/NEWS02/120203035/Jury-Secretary-State-Charlie-White-guilty-6-7-vote-fraud-charges?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com
I figured I’d be the bigger man and go first.
Taxation laws are inherently racist. The disparate impact levies a heavy burden upon industrious caucasians and asians. Can we repeal the 16th amendement?
joeyess:
what rock have you been under? Democrats are the party of voter fraud. have you ever heard of ACORN? how about LBJ? here are just a couple of recent cases of Democrat initiated voter fraud. not that you had any credibility here anyway, but you’ve diminished the very little commenter capital you did have.
http://www.examiner.com/paulding-county-republican-in-atlanta/democrats-committed-possible-election-fraud-2008-stratfor-emails-show
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/21/officials-plead-guilty-in-new-york-voter-fraud-case/
I post a link to voter fraud CONVICTION (by an elected Republican, no less) and you post two links of POSSIBLE voter fraud and one of convicted voter fraud. Well, that’s 2 cases that we know of.
Who’s under a rock, pal?
Hint: It’s the one that has socks that smell like your feet.
Also, too….. you still haven’t provided any proof of wide-spread voter fraud. All you’ve done is shout ACORN!!!!! ACORN!!!!!
Wide-Spread Voter Fraud, Chuck. WIDE-SPREAD. The kind that sways elections. You can’t. Do you wanna know why? Because it doesn’t exist.
The only voter fraud that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime was the fraud committed in ’00 by the SCOTUS.
You’re an idiot and this blog goes to show that any idiot can have one. heh.
Seeya.
this ties both together. four democrats admit to voter fraud for a party that had ties to ACORN. http://www.newsmax.com/US/Voter-fraud-New-York/2011/12/22/id/421895
we can go down the rabbit hole all day, idiot. it’s commonly understood that LBJ was a crook, and that ACORN used nefarious methods to sway elections.
but to get back to the point of the post, if you actually care to discuss it, preventing the implementation of voter ID laws would make it that much easier to muck with elections. i’m not sure why you seem to be in favor of that, but i assume you’re a Democrat.
Sharpton could care less about the “racism” of ID voting. It’s merely the off-hand wave of a magician, distracting and obfuscating.
He is a big player in the business that is voter fraud, and minimizing voter fraud would hurt his bottomline *badly*
then we have Democrat representative Arthur Davis admitted that Democrats rely on voter fraud. Rev. Al doesn’t want to make it harder for his associates to carry out voter fraud – same with Jesse Jackson. voter fraud is their bread and butter. funny enough, they’re Democrats.
From your Fox News link:
Former Troy Democratic City Clerk William McInerney, Democratic Councilman John Brown, and Democratic political operatives Anthony Renna and Anthony DeFiglio have entered guilty pleas in the case, in which numerous signatures were allegedly forged on absentee ballots in the 2009 Working Families Party primary, the political party that was associated with the now-defunct community group, ACORN.
ABSENTEE BALLOTS. And they weren’t even Democratic or Republican. They were the Working Families Party PRIMARY. I haven’t even heard of that party. Now you want to change voting laws all around the country and this is your proof?? Feh. Not to mention the fact that they got caught! Looks to me as if the law works just fine, pal.
Here’s bit of a clue: You don’t need ID’s for an absentee ballot. You only need a fucking stamp and a date of postage. So, why then do we need id’s at polling place. I just go in, they check my name off a list, I vote. No one can use my name, I can’t use anyone’s name. To perpetrate what you imagine would take a conspiracy that would leave a lot of marks.
I just ask that you provide them to me. You can’t. Again, conservatives are just trying to limit WHO can vote because they know that when turnout is high, they lose. And judging from the turnout at your recent primaries around the nation and seeing that turnout is down by over 1 million voters, I understand why you guys are nervous. Don’t worry, we’ll just beat you and then beat you some more.
Him and Jackson both
dummy:
you don’t need ID’s for an absentee ballot because they send the thing to your fucking address. that’s the vetting process right there. and ACORN was a progressive/liberal operation that worked around the edges of politics but provided support that ended up helping Democrats. it’s safe to say that they are against Voter ID laws
I gotta side with joeyess on this one. I mean, there are cases here and there on both sides. But it’s never enough to affect elections. There’s a lot of voter registration fraud, but that, again, doesn’t affect anything.
Sharpton uses the argument that it’s targeting “poor minorities” but I wonder what his argument would be if the IDs were issued for free.
[Chuck: joeyess' argument isn't even worth responding to, but he/she is arguing that we'll never find a case of "widespread" election fraud that doesn't involve a Republican. that's a bullshit argument but yeah, issue free state IDs (granted, they aren't truly free, but cities and states tax for all sorts of bullshit shenanigans, I think IDs are pretty important to have. i think that's a great idea for plenty of reasons. a lot of people - and especially blacks - suffer because of a lack of rudimentary forms of ID.]
During the last Presidential election no one even asked my name, nor did I have to show that I was registered to vote. I tried to show a voter registration card, but the guy just waved his hand to put it away and ushered me to a line to stand in.
I assume that’s pretty common.
This makes sense and this was passed in my state between the 04 and 08 elections. Despite warnings from libs that it would restrict voting, the 08 eleciton had a higher turnout than the 04 election. Being against this is purely a Dem stance as it would make their machine eleciton system harder to cheat. Supplying fake voters with true IDs to pretend to be someone else would involve a lot more fraud. They would try it, but the chance of getting caught would be very high. A simple biometric facial recognition program run over every state ID or driver’s license issued would catch duplicates to prevent fraud. If I have to show an ID for simple credit card swipes, a citizen should have to show one to cast a vote for the fate of my district, state, or nation.
Biggest Dem losses would be every swing state, and then large metro areas in purple or red states. This would crush them in presidential elections as suddenly a bunch of purple states start trending red. I’d even throw blue state Illinois in there as Cook County routinely is enough to swing an election (see Gov ’10 for example), and as long as you register there, your vote counts forever. A little known fact is that in the Dem primaries of 2008, if Obama did not have the Cook County margin he ‘won’ over Clinton in the Illinois primary early in the season, he’d have never had the popular vote lead, and Clinton’s late sweep of many states might have made the superdelegates make a decision for Clinton rather than the media push them towards O. People forget how much he faded over the campaign, had to be selected by the superdelegates and then helped by the financial collapse. Sorry, recent history the sheep forget.
Hey, chuckie, I think I just said that. That was the huuuuuuge conviction that you’re bitching about. Absentee ballots. Central to my point, I think. Again, I’m waiting, on your blog, to see actual evidence of WIDE SPREAD VOTER FRAUD THAT SWAYS A NATIONAL ELECTION SO WE HAVE TO CHANGE VOTING REQUIREMENTS NATION WIDE. or just in Republican controlled states.
Still waiting. I’m certain that I’ll shuffle off of this mortal coil long before you ever present your case.
How do Voter IDs limit who can vote? Explain that one to me.
A national ID is a great idea. As it stands you need ID for absolutely fucking everything. What do non-drivers do? Shit, what happens if you get arrested and you can’t provide an ID and you’ve got no local family, et cetera? Everyone absolutely should have a photo ID (that they must also present at the voting booth).
joeyess:
now you’re shifting goalposts. sharpton is arguing against individual states implementing these laws. nobody is trying to push a constitutional amendment to force the issue. we require IDs for all sorts of activities – driving, buying alcohol and cigarettes, getting a passport, cashing paychecks, setting up a bank account.
“People forget how much he faded over the campaign, had to be selected by the superdelegates and then helped by the financial collapse. Sorry, recent history the sheep forget.”
Hey, dipstick, that’s how the Democratic Party picks it’s nominee. Let me run it down for ya, boy: Super Delegates can sign on as the campaigns collect delegates in the various primaries and caucuses around the nation. The mathematical way for one in particular to win is to garner a simple majority of 2117 delegates. That’s delegates won and earned thru endorsement. A simple majority. And by June 3rd of ’08 Obama hit that number. She then conceded and the rest of the Super Delegates signed on to finish up the process. That’s why the last of them came in very late. They were waiting to see the empirical evidence. (or as the republican party calls it, “just a theory”). You can read all about it if you knew how to use Teh Google. (yes, I spelled “the” wrong. It’s the kind of writing that I thought you’d feel comfortable with.)
You may want to take a page out of our playbook this year. You guys may very well end up with a brokered convention. I guarantee you this much; The nation will be forced to hear the sweet dulcet tones of Sarah Palin again and cats everywhere will scurry and dogs will howl until she’s finished. Sounds like a nice night to sit out on my deck.
Mitt’s gonna be your nominee whether you like it or not.
And we’re gonna beat you wankers like a dirty rug. Do you know how I know this?
Because I can read a fucking map.
GOP=Rump Party
I’m not moving goalposts. You guys are. In every state that you hold a majority in state legislatures and the governorship, you’re pushing these laws. Fox News gave the right wing free teevee ads for an entire year in the run-up to the 2010 elections and surprise! You all won some very blue states and swing states by razor thin margins. Now they’re changing the voting laws in almost every one of these states. Cynical? You bet.
You guy had better get these laws changed. You’re gonna need ‘em.
You’re all a bunch of panty-sniffing jagoffs that are going to get your asses handed to you in your hats come November.
I can’t wait.
You guys are going to get your asses handed to you.
heh.
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/03/08/440531/gop-primary-turnout-down-from-2008-and-2000-as-polls-point-to-growing-enthusiasm-gap/
By the way, that link contains links to Politico AND a Rasmussen Poll.
joeyess,
i just want to save you the energy of pre-gloating obama’s victory. i fully expect him to be re-elected. you can’t provoke me by appealing to authority. the mistake is that you think of this as a short game when that’s not what it is at all. in fact, in the long term, the best thing that can happen to conservatives or libertarians is to have obama win a second term. small-government advocates had momentum on the birth control mandate issue, but then lefties latched on to a circus sideshow in rush limbaugh and created a new grievance to harp on.
joeyess 03/08/2012 at 6:44 pm
I figured I’d be the bigger man and go first.
You mean the bigger bitch?
at 03/08/2012 at 7:40 pm
Seeya.
But yet you keep coming back.
http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2008/10/acorn-turns-in-2500-fraudulent-voter.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/91776779.html
http://www.wlwt.com/r/17766990/detail.html
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/politics/item_WECdDEdtSRHFkI6NOWjXjP
http://wjon.com/wright-county-attorney-charges-five-people-with-voter-fraud/
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/indianapolis_voter_registration_at_105/
http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_8229cfa6-9bed-11df-83ff-00127992bc8b.html
watch
Type “(city name with any sizable black population) voter fraud 2008″ into any search engine.
You will get hits, I promise you.
Here’s some links for the others about the petulant bitch, he’s trolls everywhere:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=100000150040049
This is his new “Like” bar:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/recordBar/160485302245
He’s an Occutard of course:
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyTogether
Read his tweets:
https://twitter.com/#!/joeyess
See his YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/joeyess?feature=
He doesn’t seem to stay long at one place, guessing he gets banned and the offending post deleted.
Here’s a good joeyess comment:
personally, I think that libertarians are just conservatives out of power.
rjp,
the guy looks like a demented fuck. and worse, he’s trying to go for the demented fuck look even while wearing a ‘peace’ t-shirt. though i’m an atheist too my experience is that those who are vocal about their atheism and join atheist groups are generally social outcasts who want to rail against the world. poor little loser.
This is the name of one of his past bands:
Joeyess and the Truth Lubes
Voter fraud is a real issue.
The democrat obejection is trasparent crap.
We have a huge number of illegal aliens in America. 11-20 million. Are the all supposed to be allowed to vote without voter id if they want to?
That’s obscene.
The democrat position which unfortunately controls the mainstream media on this issue is extreme.
I don’t know much about voter fraud, but I thought that the parties either opposed or supported voter ID laws for purely power/political reasons. Passing those laws would lessen Democratic voters, i.e. more minorities and poor vote for democrats and presumably those people would be less likely to get voter IDs. This would harm the democratic machine and benefit the republican one.
Shorter me: the political parties only care about power, their power.
“I don’t know much about voter fraud, but I thought that the parties either opposed or supported voter ID laws for purely power/political reasons”
Which probably explains why the Repubs are the ones speaking out against voter fraud — it’s because the Democrats are so much better at it than they are, they can never hope to compete with them.
Plus, it’s not like the left-leaning MSM would let Republicans get away with it anyway.
Demands for unobtainable forms of proof – check
Numerous posts that get longer and more rambling – check
Randomly switching from one issue to another – check
Heeee’sss Baaaaccck…
“Demands for unobtainable forms of proof – check”
You’re the ones making the accusation. Burden of proof is on you. If it’s unattainable, well, maybe you ought to reassess your leanings and beliefs.
[Chuck: ID is required for all sorts of things; why would voting - something that is the most important activity in the democratic process - exempt from ID requirements? You fucking morons want to retrofit the argument to protect blacks, but you don't acknowledge that this leaves open the door for voter fraud when requiring ID could in no way create voter fraud. One man, one vote is important, but you're willing, axiomatically, to disregard that democratic principle in order to protect certain classes of citizens. This doesn't make sense.]
And STILL, no one has shown me one single instance of widespread voter fraud that swayed an actual election.
just because you live in a little, weak and easily punctured political bubble and link me repeatedly to links that link to links that reside in the fevered swamps of baseless conservative claims is not a proof.
this has become a redundant and worthless exercise. same type of exercise that keeps you members of the 101st Chairborne Warriors saddled with an ass that requires a love seat while typing your faux outrage on the internet.
Yep. I’m easily googled. Yes, I’m an atheist. And yes, I’m a liberal. You want proof of my assertion that your ideology is bullshit? We’ve had 30+ years of your vaunted conservative experiment and your ideology has failed spectacularly.
You all know the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
I know, I know……. Conservatism can’t fail. It can only BE failed.
good luck, fucksticks.
You’re going to need it.
BTW, rjp? Eat a bag of salted dicks, k?
[Chuck: Um, you already ate all of them.]
Still waiting for this indisputable evidence of widespread voter fraud.
[Chuck: You're not setting the frame here dipshit. Al Sharpton (or you, if you want to fill his shoes) must show where voter ID bills are racist. He offered the hypothesis; he (or you) should defend it. So the burden of proof is on you.]
You support the bills. Bills that haven’t been proven necessary. Balls in your court. No matter how badly you want it to be in mine.
The charge is that the bills are racist. There is no evidence that they are racially motivated. It is a safeguard that makes perfect sense and is in line with the principle of democratic elections. If you want to ensure one man, one vote then you have to be able to track votes.
that’s not my charge. my charge is that it places undue burden on students, the elderly, and the poor (and yes that includes people of color).
You’re the one that keeps on bringing up race and Al Sharpton.
The ONLY reason anybody would require identification to be shown at a voting booth is because there are certain groups (the GOP, entirely) who feel that those who would not vote for their fascist policies and draconian demagogues are precisely the sorts of people not likely to possess “legitimate” identification. So, because ID’s are required other places, they should be required at voting booths? What next? We have to show an ID to travel between states, to access the Internet? Do you ignorant assholes have any idea what the implications are for requiring this sort of ridiculousness? I am a student, a fucking patriot of this country, a hater of Nazism, and a freethinking man with a mind, and the idea of requiring me to present an ID at a voting booth is so far beyond absurd, I am shocked that such inanity could really be justified, rationalized, or considered reasonable. Al Sharpton is right, but it is not just racist, it is classist, elitist, and more arbitrary than say, a Republican candidate. Keep in mind, you gutless children of the corn, that your precious Mitt Romney is a rich, plutocratic bastard and Rick Santorum thinks Church and State are the same things, for all intents and purposes; you know, like legislating homosexuality out of the human condition, keeping “sluts” from engaging in acts of love-exchange with their godless partners, and teaching creationism in science classes as if it weren’t a messy fuck-load of irrational superstition. You want to show your ID when you vote? That’s great, but I have no intention of showing mine, and I do intend to vote. For Barack Obama. That only politician within 25,000 miles of Washington D.C. that doesn’t wish to sell this country, in full, to Bank of America, Monsanto, and the goddamn Chinese.
I have an 87 yr old mother. She’s been in assisted living for 3 years. She no longer has a state issued ID, she has no viable way to get one. She would like to vote. My father, who served in the Army Air Corps, flying 25 missions over Germany, awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, Army Service Medal, Bronze Star and went down in the English Channel gaining him entry into the Goldfish Club during his service as a ball turret gunner on a B-17 would be in the same boat if he were alive today.
You don’t know, nor do you care who lose the franchise of their vote.
One more secret.
Dad was a conservative and would vote your way.
Mom too.
Lost that vote, didn’t ya?
and spare me your gratitude. you and people like you are not worthy of his sacrifice
P.S. There hasn’t been an “anything-goal” minded Republican since Lincoln.
blo-ey,
whatever gratitude i would have had for your father is nullified by my disappointment that he spawned you.
Well, Chuckie, then I guess it’s a damn good thing Joey’s father didn’t come seeking your gratitude before he went fighting for your freedoms, huh?
You’re still not worthy of his sacrifice.
You and people like you don’t hold the ideals he did.
Yes, he was conservative. But he thought that the franchise of voting was a sacred one. He vehemently disagreed with voter ID laws because he knew they would affect him.
You don’t care about that. You only care about winning.
Try reading Abraham Lincoln’s speech at Cooper Union sometime.
He shines a bright light on the likes of you. The words still stand as rock solid as his monument in D.C.
If you read it, you will see yourself in the mirror. And will be repulsed by what you see.
This is rather ridiculous, no offense but your example on ACORN, this was a nonprofit organization, that means the people involved were receiving a paycheck. I would love, as joeyess would love, to see widespread voter fraud, not even to sway an election where a large group of people, that were not paid, committed voter fraud.
Nowadays it is hard enough to get people out to vote once, with our busy life schedules, long voter lines, only to be lengthened by checking IDs? This makes no sense, most people probably don’t vote because it is getting too difficult to vote, period. This is simply voter suppression, and yes republicans are the only ones pulling this stuff because it works.
Whether or not you have an ID does not curtail voter fraud, period, end of discussion. People manning these voting booths, do not call one another, and say hey “so and so voted”. As is done everywhere else, their names are crossed off a list and that’s that. Asking for ID does not do anything except require one more thing, one must take to vote.
If you think voter fraud is larger among republicans than democrats than you should a) welcome the chance to stick it to the republicans by making their fraud more difficult and b) be fucking outraged that there’s voter fraud taking place at all.
You know what makes a mockery of the voting process more than a senile 97 year old woman forgetting to get an ID so she can participate? Some lowlife scumbag voting five times because there are no proper identity checks.
“Nowadays it is hard enough to get people out to vote once, with our busy life schedules, long voter lines, only to be lengthened by checking IDs?
Adding a requirement to get an ID every 10-20 years or so and 5-10 seconds to check it at the voting booth is a huge hurdle?
If you’re seriously arguing that in itself is too much of a problem for blacks, you are in effect arguing that blacks are kind of useless. I pretty much think they are, but it’s usually not something liberals like to come out and state openly, particularly when they have black girlfriends.
“This makes no sense, most people probably don’t vote because it is getting too difficult to vote, period”
Filtering out people too lazy and uninterested in the process doesn’t exactly seem like a bug. Yes, obviously that would benefit conservatives over progressives, but that’s mostly because progressives heavily cater to the lazy and ignorant.
lol where did these lunatic faggots come from, this is the kind of deranged ranting you usually see on huffington post or other mass media sites that cater to people who are too retarded to seek out anything less generic
As per usual during an election year the trolls and people with poor reading comprehension skills are out in full force. Not once does the above article reference or accuse anyone of widespread voter fraud. It’s simply About Al Sharpton crying racism about anything and everything that could affect blacks. In a post 9/11 world providing proof of ID is required for almost everything we do. Voting, and our right to vote freely is one of the founding principles of this country. SO WHAT if large cases of voter fraud have never been shown to swing a particular election. What’s wrong with protecting the integrity of one of our most sacred rights in this country? On a side note, I bet the poor destitute blacks with no access to basic resources, have their ID at the ready when they’re buying lotto tickets, liquor, cigarettes and blunt wraps
Also joeyess, the style and tone in which you write exposes you for a very angry, bitter, and I would even venture sexless person. You’re awfully venemous and bitter for someone whose side is “winning”. There’s an entire world outside the blogs, chatrooms, and rabbit holes of social media you inhabit in your basement. Why don’t you have a fresh shower and a shave, throw on some jeans instead of the sweatpants, and venture out, have a drink, take in a movie, something, anything to take the edge off
What a master of Socratic Debate this joeyess person is. I can feel my IQ rising just by reading his erudite posts!
I have yet to see one example of wide spread voter fraud posted here. An awful lot of attacks on my person, no evidence.
That’s typical. You see, reality has a liberal bias.
and mike seems to think that hurling homosexual epithets is a form of debate. It’s a good thing you’re not in the military, huh mike? Why, you may have to shower with a faggot, then all would be lost! oh my!
Everyone who argues that you need an ID to do almost everything, which is true, sort of. Driving is the only example that is valid. Who in their right mind would card a 60-year-old man for booze?
Yet no one has explained how asking for ID curtails voter fraud, i would like an explaination. ASKING FOR ID DOES NOT DO ANYTHING TO PREVENT VOTER FRAUD. It does not change the fact that i could go and vote twice at two different locations if i so pleased. If you want to argue anything, updating our voting process and making it all digital and linked together would solve this.
Everyone already has to prove all things necessary to vote during voter registration. There is no widespread voter fraud, there never was.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/02/aclu-florida/shark-attacks-are-more-common-voter-fraud-florida/
Voter ID laws affect everyone, not just blacks in case you didn’t know. The racist comment is ALSO INVALID, and i take it personally, this is my fiance, we have a beautiful daughter together, she is the least lazy person i know, and stands up for what she believes is right in social cirumstances.
“I have an 87 yr old mother. She’s been in assisted living for 3 years. She no longer has a state issued ID, she has no viable way to get one. She would like to vote. My father, who served in the Army Air Corps, flying 25 missions over Germany, awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross, Army Service Medal, Bronze Star and went down in the English Channel gaining him entry into the Goldfish Club during his service as a ball turret gunner on a B-17 would be in the same boat if he were alive today.”
Joey, I have plenty of sympathy for the opposition to the increasing demands for ID in ordinary life — believe me, it’s no fun being asked for ID papers that you’re not carrying just to buy alcohol even when you’re visibly over 21! (I have a passport, mind you, but it stays in a safe where it belongs most of the time. I’m not taking it with me to a place like the grocery store!)
For voting, though, there’s a simple solution: you take the printed ballot that was sent to your home, which has your name and address on it, with you to the voting booth. That way you can only vote in one location, your name gets checked off when you vote, and there are no requirements to have other government-issued papers which not everyone is eligible to have.
All the platitudes in this thread have convinced me I’m wrong. In fact, I now think we should do away with all laws against things that don’t happen frequently. I mean, murder isn’t even that frequent an occurrence and laws against it must impinge on some of my rights.
I’ve yet to see a cogent argument against requiring voter IDs.
It’s required by law. If you fail to get the ID of that 60-year-old man before you serve him and he’s an inspector or one observes it you will be fined. So absolutely everyone in their right mind will card a 60-year-old man.
We had tens of MILLIONS of illegal immigrants in this country, non of whom are citizens and none of whom are legally allowed to vote. Without voter ID what’s to keep them from doing so, and voting for democrats who will sponsor amnesty bills. Similarly none of the millions of green card holders are legally allowed to vote, though no doubt many do.
Requiring photo ID’s for voting is a no brainer. They’re required to drive a car, drink in a bar, rent a car, cash checks, and so on. If some no accounts can’t be bothered to get one, screw them.
Who says voter fraud doesn’t happen frequently? It’s a lot easier to do than prove in states that don’t require ID to vote. A whole lot easier.
joey–
Allow seniors to use expired drivers licenses as photo ID. Problem solved.
[Chuck: Yep, and most states that require some form of ID to vote make these kinds of exceptions. But Blow-ey doesn't even address Al Sharpton's argument which is that these laws are somehow inherently racist. These are able-bodied blacks we're talking about. They can do plenty of other things, why can't they get the documents required to ensure that they can vote?]
The law on that is inexact and does differ by state. Where I’m living, we’re supposed to card anyone who appears to be under 30. It’s completely arbitrary and ridiculous. Some bars just have ID scanners and require everyone to just hand over their ID as soon as they walk in the door. We only get hammered if we do actually serve to an underage person. It’s not the non-carding, it’s the serving.
But Eric Crockett misses the point anyway. The point of carding for booze is to ensure that a person is who they say they are. For the purposes of booze purchase, lying customers would be lying about their being a person who is above 21 years of age. That is the basis of their potential lie – age. So a 60 year old doesn’t have reason to lie so, yes, no reason to ID them.
But all people who show up to the poll could have a reason to lie about their being registered to vote, being from the locale they are trying to vote in, and not having voted somewhere else or under someone else’s name. Since the basis for their lie is their actual identity and their location, they should be ID’d in order to ensure consistency.
You know what makes a mockery of the voting process more than a senile 97 year old woman forgetting to get an ID so she can participate?
Should the senile be voting?
Yes, he was conservative. But he thought that the franchise of voting was a sacred one. He vehemently disagreed with voter ID laws because he knew they would affect him.
I call bullshit on the fact that you ever discussed this with him. I am willing to bet (if your father was what you say) that he had his voter registration card in his wallet at all times, and knew the people who worked at his voting precinct.
Who in their right mind would card a 60-year-old man for booze?
Any store clerk who works in a major grocery chain in Chicago.
I agree with Doug1 on this: If some no accounts can’t be bothered to get one, screw them.
STFU Joey this law isn’t about preserving the rights of 90-year old immobile white ladies. It’s about coddling the Democratic Party’s most (incompetent) reliable core constituency – blacks.
Al Sharpton knows the negro very well. If you’ve also ever had dealings with the average negro you also know that they can never get their shit together when it comes to self-responsibility and doing things the orthodox way.
This means never being on time, having paperwork, car insurance/registration, school supplies or playing by basic rules successfully.
Eric–
Utter rubbish.
I can only vote at one location, and in fact only at one voting booth at that location, based upon my address, which requires pre-registration.
However there is no voter ID requirement here in nyc, so illegal Hispanic and other immigrants CAN EASILY illegally register to vote and vote.
Pingback: More on Voter ID (and Stratfor Emails) « Gucci Little Piggy
Anyone else notice how the libs have been whining about Obama being Bush term 3 for 2 years now, and moaning that they were a Clinton supporter all along, now suddenly are rallying around the POTUS? I too see Obama being re-elected, and I too think he will be poison long term for the Dems. Dem pols have been running away from him for 2+ years now. Can you imagine the taint and stink on the party after the debt/currency crisis in the next 5 years? The alienation of the white working class vote might be worth it alone.
I’m starting to think the GOP is secretly trying to throw the election as Obama gives them great fundraising ammo, caves non-stop on anything, bombs random countries, extends tax cuts and proposes new corporate tax cuts, and he can be blamed for any problems at all times come ’16. Winning now just sets up the GOP for the inevitable ouster after our currency crisis.
Doug1
You have unfortunately defeated yourself in your own argument. What are the chances that the following will occurr:
1. Know that the person you are impersonating has not voted yet?
2. Know where that person lives?
3. Know that person is even registered?
4. Be able to pull it off on a massive enough scale that it even reflects a different outcome?
And yet, I can’t help but imagine if they at least verify the address they have on record? I may be wrong, I don’t vote in New York. Sounds like NYC has got it figured out pretty well.
Yo brainiac, I mean Eric, ever heard of dead people voting.
In addition to being against voter ID laws, why are libs so against cleaning the voter registration rolls?
Eric Crockett
1. Easy, is they are a recently deceased black voter in your building or on your block.
2. See number one, and enlist others to help if there are multiple. It’s all about the free money.
3. See number one.
4. Do it on every block in Chicago, Philadelphia, NYC, Atlanta, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Baltimore, WashDC, etc,etc, etc,.
Then just go in to vote and if anybody questions you be an uppity nigger. …. without any ID ….. even though there is no chance you have no ID whatsoever — because you can’t get a job without ID, and you certainly can not cash a government check (in any place you are not well known) without ID, so you have got to have something ….
It’s free just swipe the EBT.
To all you cretins and your weak arguments regarding voting requirements (hint: It’s a RIGHT.) I offer this link for your reading pleasure:
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2012/03/13/i-would-argue-this-is-no-different-than-taking-an-airplane/
Now, read the WHOLE thing. The constitution of Wisconsin, indeed the constitution of every state includes this wording almost verbatim:
“As our Supreme Court stated 132 years ago: “The elector possessing the qualifications prescribed by the constitution is invested with the constitutional right to vote at any election in this state. For the orderly exercise of the right resulting from these qualifications it is admitted that the legislature must prescribe necessary regulations as to the places, mode and manner, and whatever else may be required to insure its full and free exercise. But this duty and right inherently imply that such regulations are to be subordinate to the enjoyment of the right, the exercise of which is regulated. The right must not be impaired by the regulation. It must be regulation purely, not destruction. If this were not an immutable
principle, elements essential to the right itself might be invaded, frittered away, or entirely exscinded, under the name or pretence of regulation, and thus would the natural order of things be subverted by making the principle subordinate to the accessory.”
[ ]
“For that reason no right is more jealously guarded and protected by the departments of government under our constitutions, federal and state, than is the right of suffrage. It is a right which was enjoyed by the people before the adoption of the constitution and is one of the inherent rights which can be surrendered only by the people and subjected to limitation only by the fundamental law”
Wow. That sounds like a right, doesn’t it? A bit more inherent than say, the right to fly on an airliner or buy liquor. Wouldn’t you agree?
So, to sum up, your arguments are paper thin as usual.
Heh.
@rjp
Despite the fact that you use adverse language in a political debate, actually shows a lack of understanding of reality. Also, why would I be looking for someone on my block that is black to have deceased, I suppose you think democrats are that sharky? There is a lack of proof that this has ever actually happened on a massive scale, only one i can find is the ACORN scandal. Not to mention the mere fact that someone would have spilled the beans! Really human nature is to tell the truth, to assume otherwise, watergate scandal? It eventually broke, and that involved the President of the United States!
Another, what free money where? Are you annoyed by the fact that democrats do not have a lot of money? Are you ignorant of the fact that the right wing agenda is backed by the Koch brothers as well as many other billionaires? Are you naive enough to believe that our congress is not bought? There really is no case on the topic of voter fraud.
And yes I agree with joeyess voting is a right, and there is a funny thing about rights, they are not to be voted on.
Would you also agree that voter suppression can take the form of limiting registration to proof of US citizenship identification like it is in Kansas now, so you would need to have your birth certificate, US Passport, or Social Security card in order to register? Not exactly the type of identification you would have on your way to the grocery store when the voter registration stands are outside of your local grocery store. Would you at least agree that, that is in fact voter suppression?
I just stumbled onto this post. I’m Canadian. For Eric Crockett, I have one comment.
In my country, ID has always been required to vote. I’m a liberal. I think it’s positively insane – to the point of endangering democracy – to not require some form of identification for voting that indicates that
1) You are a citizen and have the right to vote, and
2) you are allowed to vote in a given riding (district?).
You also need to prevent people from voting twice.
In my riding, we’re on voters lists. We need to show up and if we’re on the list ,we just need photo ID to prove we are who we say we are. Being in the list is sufficient proof of citizenship. Pretty lax, actually. Enumerators are known to make mistakes.
If you’re not on the list, you can show up with a proof of citizenship and a bill or driver’s license or anything indicating you live in the riding. And then you can vote. They go out of their way to make sure you can vote.
This is pretty darned minimal, dontchathink?
Any democracy that does not police who has the right to vote is suicidal.
Imagine if 10,000 Canadians went on holiday in New York and decided to vote. Who’s to stop them?
Sometimes I think liberal Americans are insane. It’s as if they actually want their country to disappear or they hate their own nation with some kind of insane passion derived from mass-induced hallucinations.
And by the way, your mechanical voting apparati are also insane. We count physical ballots. Call it expensive, but it works.
Your system is designed by both conservatives and liberals to be easily manipulated and neither side seems to really believe in democracy at all.
From up north, there’s not much for us to say about it, but that both sides seem to be utterly delusional.
@Craig
I understand your point, but it is difficult enough to convince them of the importance of voting, particularly liberals, that is a fact. Making it more difficult, as has been done in my state especially, is discouraging. Voter registration drives have been abandoned in Florida-R, significantly reduced in my state Kansas-R (really big R). Because they understand that there will be less people to register to vote, with more restrictions.
This one, curtails voting, particularly by young voters, new voters, that are more likely to vote democratic. All in unison, Republican-held states have added new voting-rights restrictions. These restrictions in almost all of these states, do not prevent voter fraud, that Republicans continuously argue is vast and widespread without providing hardly any proof of its prevalence.
If you would like to argue a new system to the voting process to help curtail this, either computerized voting, with linking nation-wide systems together, allowing all forms of state, and federal identification. Making the process easier, and up-to-date with the technology we already have available. Even to the point of being able to vote online. The general public would vote. Asking very personal information, ID’ing questions, security questions that could be filled out while registering to vote.
But here is the deal, I would be behind this sort of structure, if and only if it can be done responsibly, non-discriminating (particularly against young and elderly voters). But showing identification, and proving you are who you say you are, does not prevent anyone else from going down the road to another voting box, and proving you are who you say you are again and voting. But these bills do nothing more than restrict access, because the general public does not understand voting requirements, in their state, as well as because people don’t always follow local news, I’m more involved in national news myself, and most are come election time.