Kicking. Squealing.
The latest twist in the Trayvon Martin case is the 911 call made by George Zimmerman. The internet stumbled upon Zimmerman muttering something that was initially overlooked by police and media, and, as would be expected in a case like this, two camps are interpreting Zimmerman’s muttering differently. Jon Haidt just wrote a book that touches on this bifurcation – the adoption of an opinion and then the post hoc justification for it.
In the 911 call, Zimmerman either says “fucking coons” or “fucking punks” when describing Trayvon Martin. Just browsing comments, it seems to be the case that either side can’t understand why the other side can’t hear the words they hear. Very interesting insight into human psychology.
Here’s the recording and audio diagnostics:
This bit of audio is important in determining whether Zimmerman committed a hate crime. Though, as many will argue, if Zimmerman said “fucking punks”, that doesn’t deal with the so-called institutional racism that let Zimmerman off the hook after shooting a black kid.
My take: the beginning of the word in question sounds plosive – it sounds like he’s making a “p” sound. The rest of the word is a little jumbled and difficult to discern. Since the part that is most discernible is the beginning – which doesn’t sound like it begins in a hard “c” – I give a slight edge to “punks”. Of course, people who disagree with me would label me a racist. The next question would be, why would Zimmerman, even if he is racist as some say, utter those words on a call with a 911 operator? What types of words did Zimmerman use in the 50 calls he had made to 911 over the past year? If Zimmerman is overtly racist, there should be a pattern.
None of that addresses the deeper argument, that institutional racism compelled Zimmerman (who is half Hispanic, half Jewish) to assume that Martin was up to no good because he was black, and which also compelled the police to believe Zimmerman’s story that he had been attacked by Martin. That type of analysis becomes statistical. Zimmerman thinking that Martin was up to no good and the police believing Zimmerman must have been informed by their understanding that blacks are heavily represented among those who do commit crime. That becomes a chicken and egg argument – does the bias create the statistical artifact or does the artifact create the bias?
So we have Zimmerman – a guy who was hell-bent on being a cop – we’ve all seen this Ranger Rick syndrome – looking to do good in his neighborhood. I think the story is being looked at the wrong way. Race is background. The real story is that a man went to ridiculous and tragic lengths to prove himself useful and heroic to his community. This isn’t to grant him sympathy. He should be put in jail for some sort of manslaughter charge. If anything, Trayvon Martin had a right to protection under the “Stand Your Ground” statute in question in this case. Even if Martin did attack Zimmerman, the case can be made that Martin did so in self-defense against this seemingly self-appointed neighborhood watch captain. But it should be recognized that we are dealing with numerous moving parts and words like “racist” are too clunky for the discussion.
Here is Trayvon Slimm Matrin’s Facebook page which looks like it’s been scrubbed of his posts:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1353307542
And from: http://www.ktuu.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-tension-20120317,0,5091262.story
Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.
Suspended from school for tardiness?
My ass.
Funny, I couldn’t tell from the beginning of the word, but it really sounded more like a “nks” at the end than “ns”. And I don’t think the word “coon” is used much these days as a racial slur.
That said, I doubt he would have been chasing a white kid in the same situation and, if he did, I doubt he would have escalated it into physical conflict when he caught him. Whether that makes him racist or realistic, you can decide, but if you’re gonna take it upon yourself to go packing and chasing down perceived bad guys, you’d better be right.
I really don’t understand what race has to do with this case beyond people trying to score political points. Who attacked who should be the only question here.
As far as profiling? Blacks disproportionately commit the majority of crimes. The DOJ does a yearly phone survey where they ask people if they’ve been a victim of a crime and if so who was the race of the criminal(Much better than normal criminal statistics). Proportionally Blacks are always #1, followed by Hispanics, then Whites, then Asians.
Black kids commit thefts like no one else. I had a couple of friends who lived a bad part of Pasadena, CA who had small things stolen on a regular basis. They finally caught the thief trying to steal their TV set at 3am. It was the 9 year old black kid from next door. Both of my friends now do everything possible not to live in black areas. In my home town people regularly have their stuff stolen by black kids that they know! When they catch them in the act they are able to direct the cops next door or down the street to make an arrest. One women was beat up by her next door neighbour kids when she came home early and found them in her home. Hell one thief woke up a 6 boy sleeping on the couch while he was stealing the family’s TV set. When the kid told him to stop the thief mace him and walked off with the TV. The 17 year old black thief lived 2 blocks over.
Let the blacks kill each other. Whites don’t have to do anything except to keep them corralled amongst each other and the rest takes care of itself. Ding-Dang-Done.
I was wondering if he was part Jewish. Bob Dylan’s last name was Zimmerman before he changed it and he’s Jewish.
“Coon” hasn’t been used since the ’60s. It’s highly, highly unlikely that Zimmerman, even if he was a KKK grand knight, would ever utter the word “coon.” He might use some other well-known words, but he would not use “coon.”
I prefer the phrase, “‘effin Canadians.”
Not only that, but he was ROBERT Zimmerman (like George’s father) before he was Bob Dylan.
rjp,
Who gives a FUCK about what he was suspended for? Are you an idiot? George “I’m the law” Zimmerman is piece of shit likely to shoot you or anyone else just to get his dick hard. You stupid fuck.
Because SMH ther public is being bamboozled by the media again with another story of an “honor student” who was no such thing. George Zimmerman stumbled upon just another nigger up to no fucking good, and that nigger is 17 years old (not the kid in those pictures the media are showing around that are of him when he was probably 11 or 12 (and no better of a citizen), and probably because they have no recent picture of him not in gang wear or flashing gang signs like his cousin does on his FB page) and that 17 year old nigger went off on George Zimmerman when approached, and George Zimmerman did what he had to do to keep from getting his head fully bashed in.
Point is, nobody gets suspended for 5 days for being fucking tardy, and you are a deluded fucking sheep if you believe anything you are hearing on on TV.
There is a more recent picture of him in a hoodie.
The problem I have with the media coverage is that no one addresses the fact that people are intimidated by young black men.
The only thing I notice about this case is the amount of attention it’s getting. There are about 30 murders/day in the US. Why is this one so important?
Unrelated to the direction of the thread, but something to consider:
The human ear can reliably detect frequencies up to around 20kHz, higher when young or with undamaged hearing. Most forms of voice transmission, however, discard the vast majority of this range, uniformly the upper portion, simply because it conveys proportionately less ‘detail’ than the lower frequencies. However, the higher frequencies are most important in conveying consonants. The result is what you have in this video, where the poor audio quality makes it difficult to distinguish between the hard ‘p’ and ‘c’ sounds.
Interestingly enough, there’s a cultural component to this. European languages, exemplified by the Germanic family, rely heavily on consonants to distinguish words, and so make heavy use of phonetic alphabets which give each ‘letter’ a more unique sound with easier-to-distinguish consonants. Asian languages rely much more heavily on vowel sounds, and have fewer problems in this regard. This even plays out in radio equipment – Microphones supplied by Yaesu/Vertex Standard intended for low-bandwidth communication feature selectable filtering – one is optimized for vowel-heavy Asian languages and with a more ‘natural’ sound, the other for consonant-heavy European languages, and which comes off as more ‘compressed’.
Thanks for the info Tom.
Maybe it’s just me, but I very, very clearly heard him say “punks.” I don’t even know how anyone could hear “coons.”
When I’m thinking “coons” I hear coons, and when I’m thinking “punks” I hear punks. I’m not sure if there is a technological method of distinguishing between the two. I do here that distinctive hard consonant at the end of the word for ‘punks’, but that could also be the audio crackle from his breath on the transmitter.
Couldn’t really hear what he said but just like K(yle) what I was thinking was what it sounded like.
How about this for a scenario Zimmerman exits the car to follow so he can observe and report EXACTLY what watches are supposed to do.Now Zimmerman was stupid because he put himself in danger while doing this O.K his mistake. Second he asks the kid who he is and what’s he doing maybe he didn’t ask so nice? Regardless Zimmerman is a resident of the community and an adult. Is it unreasonable for an adult to ask a minor what they are doing in their community after dark? I bet little(6’2″-6′-4″ depending on reports) takes offense and punches Zimmerman hence Zimmerman’s bloody nose. Zimmerman falls backwards the kid advances and is on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the sidewalk this jibes with the neighbor who is a witnesses story. This also accounts for the bloody back of the head and the grass stains on the back of the shirt. Now I don’t know about you guys but if someone is slamming my brains into the sidewalk I can reasonably assume they are trying to kill or maim me so BLAMMO! Zimmerman shots well within the letter of the law for self defense.
Zimmerman maybe an asshole he maybe nosy and rude but it could be the usual black teen beats man to death story and no one would give a shit.
MuayTyson, it was 30seconds between the start of the attack and the shooting based on the screaming in the 911 call. Zimmerman indicated he was sucker punched when he got out of his car. It’s more likely he was sucker punched, held down and beaten in the face for 30 seconds and then finally shot the kid.
30 seconds of pummeling can seem like an eternity. To test this theory go to a local MMA or Boxing gym and allow someone to “spar” with you for 30 seconds.
He obviously said punks. Some people.
I listened to it time and again. I couldn’t make out either word.
Three weeks ago three black sixteen-year-olds in Kansas City chased down, doused with gasoline, and set fire to a white thirteen-year-old boy while saying “die you white motherfucker” or something like that.
The fact they were not charged with a hate crime while the entire government-media complex is dancing in the head of a coons-punks pin is all you need to know about the cancer that is America today.
I’ve noticed the anger is now being directed at the police chief rather than Zimmerman. I guess he must be white. I think black leaders know they won’t be able to sustain anger at a hispanic.
I just read an article on the Huffington Post where the writer said he is not going to make Zimmerman’s race an issue. I wonder if that would be the case if he were white.
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“Point is, nobody gets suspended for 5 days for being fucking tardy, and you are a deluded fucking sheep if you believe anything you are hearing on on TV.”
I’m not sure how long ago you went to HS but they’re suspending HS kids for all types of “infractions.” At my local HS you can’t attend prom if you’ve been absent 5 times IN THE WHOLE YEAR.
It was 6 times when I went to HS. I missed about a 15-20 days a semester without excuses, graduated on time and wasn’t barred from Prom, so those ‘policies’ are bullshit. It’s possible he was suspended for tardiness; I don’t know what his district/school is like and I’m not a public school expert, but I know where I live now that still wouldn’t happen.
I did have a friend that was ‘suspended’ for ‘tardiness’. He stopped going to school, and after about a month of non-attendance and his father not formally withdrawing him from school he was issued a suspension by mail. What we likely aren’t being told is that Martin is just a dropout. Of course we aren’t being told anything about Martin at all, and we are being shown photos of him that are ~4 years or more old exclusively.
As for what happened between Martin and Zimmerman, according to a neighborhood witness Zimmerman was continuing to pursue Martin after Zimmerman had already been bloodied. So Zimmerman probably can’t claim self-defense if Martin attempted to walk away after the first simple assault. It would have to be conclusive that Martin was trying to murder Zimmerman, which probably isn’t going to happen.
@ Lara
First of all, Zimmerman is, in fact, white. He’s half-white—his father is white and his mother is Latino. That makes him both. As far as I’m concerned, his race isn’t relevant—he appears to have slaughtered a boy in cold blood—but it helps to make sure we have the facts straight.
Secondly, the reason why so-called “black leaders” have now directed their ire at the police chief is because of the ridiculously shoddy investigation he conducted in the wake of this kid’s execution. They simply took Zimmerman at his word that the shooting was self-defense and did nothing else. It took the news media to track down the phone call between the victim and his girlfriend and Zimmerman’s 911 call—both of which prove that Zimmerman was, in fact, the aggressor. Without actual police work being done by the media and lawyers hired by the family, this boy’s execution would have gone completely unnoticed.
But all you have to say is that blacks are only mad at the police chief because he is white? Lara—FUCK YOU. You should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you?? Why don’t you actually pay attention to what’s happening in the case before using this to gin up your sense of greivance? Shame on you.
And for the record, black people are still plenty mad at the shooter—where most of the ire belongs, in my opinion. But the cops deserve a hefty dose of it because they simply refused to do their jobs in the aftermath, not because they are white. Where race is an issue is that it’s hard to imagine the cops not zealously investigating if a white kid had been killed—those phone call tapes would have been discovered with the quickness if the dead kid was white.
@ PA
I heard about this case—and if it unfolded the way the mom is saying it did then it is absolutely a hate crime. The problem is proving it—apparently the only witnesses to the attack were the boy who was victimized and the three assailants, who were black. It’s classic he-said/she-said and really difficult to get that to hold up in court, so they charged them with what they could prove. It sucks but it’s the law. If we let he-said/she-said be admissible in court then you will have guys going to jail left and right on false rape accusations.
That said, I’m against hate crimes laws—I don’t think a murder or assault is any worse if a victim was targeted due to his membership in a specific demographic. But as long as we’re going to have them, they should be enforced equally.
By the way Chuck, I really liked this post—an excellent, thoughtful and nuanced analysis.
Here, here.
“He should be put in jail for some sort of manslaughter charge.”
that sounds about right.
Dragnet,
My point is that if Al Sharpton wants to get black America all stirred up, he is probably better off finding a white villain rather than a hispanic one. I’ve never heard black people complain about hispanics being racist. As far as the police, I keep hearing it wasn’t handled right, but I don’t know procedure. There may have been incompetence or maybe they want to protect George. He sounds like a bumbling idiot, and someone who desperately wants to be a cop, but doesn’t have what it takes. Maybe they feel sorry for him.
White people can also be the victims of police incompetence. Steve Sailer recently wrote an article about an incident in his town.
I’m most angry at the mainstream media. They are starting to seem criminally negligent in what they do, and do not, decide to report as news.
@Dragnet
He’s not white. Look up a photo of a blonde chick with blue eyes. That’s what a Nordic white person looks like. I know they are rare in America now but during the civil war 90% of the US had blue eyes, check wikipedia. When the media refers to a white American it is assumed Anglo/Nordic of Western European Extraction.
Pure black eyes, African Nose, and kinky black hair is Hispanic or Mulatto or some other type of non-white mix.
Mulattos aren’t white. Mestizos aren’t white. Mulatto, Mestizo, White Mixes aren’t White. It’s simple math. Sorry.
@ Lara
Al Sharpton’s ability to get black people to do anything has always been greatly overestimated. He’s commanded outsized media attention throughout his life in large part because the media is lazy. Instead of taking stock on the varied opinions within the black community on a lot of the issues in which he’s been involved, he’s immediately interviewed and held up as a “black leader” (a ridiculous term if there ever was one) because it absolves the media of having to do any further research. Nope, better to just interview Al Sharpton and close the book.
And for all of Al Sharpton’s black leaderness blacks supported white candidates over him for the presidency and have generally viewed him with a fair degree of skepticism. The MSM media gave him more credibility with white people than he had among his own people. You’re right to be pissed at the media, but not in the way that you think.
How is this relevant to the topic at hand? Are you saying that this kid’s shooting isn’t really a national story? Really??
And the mainstream media didn’t “decide” to report this as news. This boy’s parents went out got pricey lawyers, got Al Sharpton on the phone and made this story happen. The MSM doesn’t “decide” a goddamn thing. If other people’s stories aren’t getting heard they need to get a bit more sophisticated about getting their message out there.
The MSM isn’t some all powerful entity with an eye in every tree and an ear in every bush. If that white kid who was set on fire wanted his story to be national news his mother needed to take as much initiative on this Martin’s parents—otherwise the story just gets muscled out by the Kardashians.
There’s no conspiracy here, folks, just the usual laziness and human flaws you find in every endeavor.
@ Apisser
Your comment is dumb and the usual self-serving exercise in goal post shifting. The term “white” has been amazingly protean throughout the history of this country. There was time when the Irish were most emphatically considered non-white. The same goes for Jews and other groups. All of these peoples are now considered white in this country. In fact, in California
And no one–besides yourself—considers only “Anglo/Nordic of Western European Extraction” people to be white. This would exclude Greeks, Italians, French, Russians, other Slavs, etc. It’s transparently false and stupid.
The simple truth is that “white” is a catch-all term to denote a social overclass. Sure, it has some ethnic markers but they are not nearly so clearly defined as you are stating. In fact, in California people of mixed white heritage are regularly checking the “white” box on the Census forms.
You don’t get to personally make the rules on what is “white” or anything else it’s a combination of ethnic group and social convention. Deal.
Go fuck yourself worthless kike. This motherfucker doesn’t look Greek, Italian, French, Russian, et cetera. Zimmerman’s father is Jewish, not white. Jews don’t self-identify as white (which means being white 100% of the time, not just when it’s beneficial). Zimmerman is brown as fuck even with the photoshopped, lightened pictures they are showing of him. He self-identifies as non-white Hispanic. So we can call him ‘white’ even when he doesn’t consider himself ‘white’? Kikery.
Quit trying to Jew everyone. The only way to tell if a suspect in any crime is non-white is if they fail to report his race. The only reason this case was picked up is because the original journalists assumed that one ‘George Zimmerman’ had to be white. Now faggots like you are backpedaling trying to label everyone on the planet not a nigger as ‘white’.
Do you think the people you are addressing exist solely on the Internet, and not in real life? Do you think none of us actually know real-life journalists? Get fucking real the media doesn’t decide.
If Trayvon Martin was the shooter and Zimmerman was white, no amount of activism by Zimmerman’s non-Jew white father would amount to anything. It would be just another two paragraph story buried on page 8 of a local paper where the shooter was a ‘Teen’ or ‘Youth’ with no name given and no race identified.
Any attempt to fight the eracing of his son’s murder would have Zimmerman Sr. labelled a racist and righteously ostracized.
@ K(yle)
First of all, I’m black and have identified myself as such repeatedly here and in the manosphere. And I am most certainly Jewish. So motherfuck off.
And I stand by what I said before: the definition of white has expanded to include half-whites and Jews and indicated here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2043493/Hispanics-fuel-white-population-growth-ticking-census-box-percentage-race-drops-overall.html
…and countless other news stories. And Jews have long identified themselves as a separate group of white people. The fact that white nationalists don’t consider them white is 100 percent irrelevant—the broader American culture absolutely does. This really just goes to show how worthless, stupid and marginal white nationalism is.
This is a fucking crock and is in no way born out by the actual facts. This case was picked up because Martin’s parents went out and hired Benjamin Crump, a pricey, well-connected lawyer who has a direct line to Al Sharpton and his TV show. Martin was shot on February 26 but the national media didn’t begin covering it until nearly two weeks after his death….after the boy’s parents hired Crump when it was clear that Zimmerman wasn’t going to be charged with anything. If the cops had done actual police work, uncovered the boy’s call to his girlfriend and arrested Zimmerman none of us would know about this story because the family would never have even needed to hire Crump and get the national media involved. As it stands, the needed the media to do the actual police work the cops refused to do.
GET THE FACTS AND STOP MAKING SHIT UP YOU FUCKWAD.
Should read:
dammit!
“Fucking cunts.”
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Obviously he says “punks” and not “coon”. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a low IQ bigot who is just trying to spread hate toward someone they think is White.
Lara 03/22/2012 at 11:49 am
I’ve noticed the anger is now being directed at the police chief rather than Zimmerman. I guess he must be white. I think black leaders know they won’t be able to sustain anger at a hispanic.
Of course you are correct. If the man’s name was George Lopez, George Fernandez etc this case never would have entered the media’s Hate Zone.
This case just fits the PC racist narrative – White devil kills black angel. Commence the outrage.
Clearly says punks. Just another feather in the hat of racist black people jumping and assuming things they clearly know jack all about.
This entire case is pathetic, and way blown out of proportion. The kid was acting sketchy, attacked the dude, and if he hadn’t he would be here. He attacked, and that gives someone the right to shoot you, as they can “defend” themself. What’s funny is there is a shooting of a white man a month or two ago, right in front of a police station too.. the guy was in the exact same situation, and the black guy is walking today. Yet the black people say nothing about that. Why? BECAUSE HE IS BLACK AND NOT WHITE.
Also consider the fact this guy is NOT white, (zimmerman) and is clearly hispanic. Not only that, the news also confirms he is hispanic and many people say he is not racist, even black people that know him and admit it on TV.
BLACK PEOPLE PLEASE SHUT YOUR IGNORANT MOUTHS! PLEASE, this is insanely too long to hear about this ghetto kid who got shot. He wanted to be hard, attack and be quiet,and look where that got him.
So zimmerman should have just walked away after being attacked with a broken nose and gash on the back of his head? No justice for the non black guy?
I could type more obviously, but its clear black people are a COMPLETE JOKE and a MESS over this, and trying to use their useless RACIST CARD to further gain more handouts and free passes because they have dark skin. Wake up, everything is even and fair now fools!
And by the way, I’m listening to this via pc hooked up to 5.1 audio system. He clearly says PUNKS and anyone who says different is either A) Stupid B) Crap computer and sound or C) Both
As to the latino white designation, almost all latinos are white/native american mixtures, with some being pure native american or pure black african without any admixture of european (meaning usually Spanish/Portuguese/French/German) blood. Salma Hayak is a lebanese/ mexican mix, would anyone call her white? Latinos are in this country are usually mestizo a mix of white and indian most often white on the father’s side native on the mother’s, which means that Zimmerman is like almost all other latinos in the US.
rjp, you are the filth that pours from the ass of humanity. You and your hate-mongering kind will live lives of abject misery and blinding ignorance. You are truly the ones who should rot in an eternity of hellfire.
You seem to think Zimmerman only reported Martin because Martin was black. But Zimmerman talks about a person acting suspicious. Isn’t that sufficient reason?
Should Zimmerman not worry about people acting suspicious when they are black?