Kicking. Squealing.
Writing at the Daily Beast, a Cleveland-area writer named Mansfield Frazier proposes what he believes is the most ideal strategy to both mete out justice for Trayvon Martin’s death and stave off an impending race war. He writes:
So what would a fair outcome look like? To my mind, the government offers Zimmerman a plea deal that has him back on the street within this decade, and he accepts it quietly. That seems like a conclusion most reasonable Americans could live with. Of course, no matter how long or short any sentence may be, there will be those who disagree, some vehemently.
No. In our legal system, a “fair” outcome is the one determined by a jury. As philosopher Robert Nozick put it “whatever arises by just means is just itself”. That’s the only metric of fairness in the determination of guilt or non-guilt. But I suppose Frazier is pretending that he’s the jury. And he’s already determined what happened between Martin and Zimmerman. He’s drunk the Kool Aid and believes that Zimmerman had no injuries to the back of his head, and he has swallowed the “analysis” conducted by two forensics voice “experts” that magically determined that the screams heard on a 911 phone call were not George Zimmerman’s.
This is a perfect example of the unconstrained vision versus the constrained vision of which I’m so fond of discussing. More precisely, liberals and leftists are concerned with equitable or “fair” outcomes while conservative types are more concerned with the integrity of the system, due process, and judicial process. There is actually no fair outcome. There should be a fair process. The end of that process is the acceptance of the jury’s decision – conviction or acquittal. To act otherwise is a radical undertaking.
For Frazier to be fearful of a race war tells us two things. First, that Frazier believes that an exogenous variable should enter the legal process. It should not. Angela Corey and the governor of Florida have ensured us that external factors have not swayed the prosecutor’s decisions up to this point. We should hope that the fear of a race war will not affect a decision to forgo trial if it would otherwise take place. Second, Frazier is telling us that he fears that black people will not accept a certain outcome. It’s not a question of whether justice was served or not served; it’s a question of how one constituency will react. This would set a horrible precedent. It suggests that justice is dealt for the side that has the most hostile infantry. It’s ‘might makes right’ all over.
And most interesting, Frazier speaks of a “race war” which suggests that there are two equitable sides fighting in the streets. Odds are long that white people or Hispanics will spark a war regardless of the punishment leveled against George Zimmerman. So we’re here talking, before all the facts are in, about how black people might react. We aren’t talking about how to prevent a race war; we’re talking about how to prevent blacks from becoming upset, rioting, and killing people.
By the way, by Frazier’s logic we should just vote for Barack Obama for the same reason.
(A side piece to Frazier’s article. He shows how out of touch he is when he writes: “And even if he were acquitted, let’s not forget the specter of a federal indictment being handed down.” This is typical for the left-set. They learned everything they needed to know in the first several days of the media’s onslaught against Zimmerman. All the other facts, possibilities, and interpretations are Teflon. So Frazier is still parroting the hate crime possibility which arose from Zimmerman possibly having said “fucking coons” on a 911 call. Since nobody who knows anything thinks that he used that word, federal charges are a “specter” only to the same people who think that race warriors should be jurists.)
Hegel’s concept of recognition explains men like Frazier. He doesn’t want justice for Trayvon. He wants white America to pat black America on the back, tell them how successful they’d all be if it weren’t for the injustices of the past, apologize publicly like we’re required to do every few years, and promise to do more to help this oppressed group of people. Decades of post-civil rights era dysgenic breeding and fatherlessness in black ghettos isn’t to blame for the plight of black Americans. If we’d only do more to include them . . .
“On the other we’ve got the equally clownish neo-Nazis, goose-stepping around on their self-appointed mission to protect the white race.”
Yeah, facts aren’t something Frazier is concerned with.
“In this environment it wouldn’t take much to ignite the racial power keg we’re sitting on.”
The Daily Beast needs a better copy editor.
Can’t help but think of ‘Bonfire of the Vanities’ with this article.
The theme that with certain transgressions all normal protections are null and void and the defendant is simply thrown to the wolves.
This cocksucker Frazier counsels Zimmerman to take a plea – But after a few weeks of isolation and the counsel of O’Mara, Zimmerman may decide going to trial isn’t in his best interest.
What would Sherman McCoy do ? Sherman found out that he only got a fair deal when he behaved in the same unprincipled, amoral way as his accusers.
Fight it out. These people are fascists – power and force is the only thing they understand.
Blacks realized they bit off more than they could chew and are looking for a way out.
Actually, a fair outcome is that that laughable affadavit was laughted out of court and that this not even get to a jury.
Maybe a race war would be the fair outcome. Sure, white liberals like Frazier would be easy pickings, but that’s collateral damage I can live with. After that though, if the Hispanics join the whites, which I’m sure they will, since the media has reliably informed us that Hispanics are white, I think sheer numbers means that Al Sharpton et all are going to lose in the end.
Sounds fair to me.
The Inquisition, Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis, was the “fight against heretics” by several institutions within the justice system of the Roman Catholic Church. It started in the 12th century, with the introduction of torture in the persecution of heresy.
Mansfield Frazier and his many allies may be most concerned about souls — not about facts or abstract concepts like “justice”.
White leftists transform themselves into better people by urging other whites to atone for the sins of their forebears, and for their own racist behavior (be it witting or unwitting). By happy coincidence, this is the exact elixir that those lesser whites need, in order to begin their own journey away from racist heresy and towards self-realization, penance, and salvation.
By virtue of their sacralized victim status (Haidt via Sailer), black leftists like Frazier are already free from sin. Their dedication to the moral uplift of the White Race is nonetheless touching.
To phrase it a different way, the Bolsheviks knew that full bellies for the kulaks counted for very little in the grand scheme of things. Thinking about starving peasant children would be an indication of weakness and sentimentality, at the very time when strength and steadfast dedication to revolutionary principals were needed most.
Zimmerman railroaded into a manslaughter plea or knifed in a prison-yard encounter would be, one supposes, somewhat unfortunate. But this is a small price to pay for progress towards the ever-receding goal of true racial equality, of opportunity and outcome both.
“On the other we’ve got the equally clownish neo-Nazis, goose-stepping around on their self-appointed mission to protect the white race.”
This is funny. Such people don’t exist off the internet. The tiny, tiny, tiny handful of such folks that may possibly exist are mostly cops, feds’ flunkies, etc. Face it Libs, it is a Hollywood trope and nothing more.
And if such people did exist, why not excuse them the way you do the ganstaz? Didn’t they suffer exclusion? A bad childhood? Disadvantaged? ETC?
I guess not.
GL Piggy,
Have you considered interviewing Andrew Brevik? He will not get a fair hearing from the MSM. Only on the internet will he get what he wishes. You might try his attorney if interested. It’s a big opportunity for someone who’s got the nuts.
The black people near me are clueless. I saw them buying flowers, when they should be stocking up on ammo.
Chuck said:
“This would set a horrible precedent. It suggests that justice is dealt for the side that has the most hostile infantry. It’s ‘might makes right’ all over.”
Have you ever heard of Critical Law Theory? I suppose in time you will.
Chuck, re. Ryu’s suggestion, Gore Vidal had a lengthy correspondence with Tim McVeigh and published a major piece on him in Vanity Fair, after his execution I think.
Zim would be a fool to accept a plea bargain. Based on the prosecutors’ thin gruel of an affadavit, he’s looking at a sure acquittal for Murder 2. Unless, of course, he runs into an OJ-type jury that’s intent on hanging him regardless of the evidence.
As someone has already mentioned, this travesty should never go to trial. Any judge worth his salt will throw this case out, but then that’s where the problem lies. Did you see video of Zimmerman in court? Who looked more like the prepertrator? Zimmerman or the black cop standing next to Zimmerman?
All this talk of race war. Are Whites such cowards that they will allow blacks to wantonly murder Whites will waiting for their time to be murdered? Oh goodness, goodness. The blacks are into race war against us Whites. What to do oH what to do. If blacks want war with whites, I mean open war, they already are at war with whites, and winning if you do the body count of whites murdered and assaulted by blacks compared to blacks murdered and assaulted by whites, if blacks want war then as Phil Sheridan said, “They want war. We’ll give’em war.” The only way blacks can run this country by fear, which they do now, is that Whites allow it. “Those that want security more than freedom, shall have neigther.”
Regarding interviewing Brevik, I think it would make sense. I once read an article written by a white man in prison. He was attempting to explain the mindset of the killers of James Byrd. It was eye opening to me.
The premise of his article was basically the killers weren’t racist, until they spent time in prison and were at the mercy of black men.
It’s why I believe, if anywhere should be racially segregated, it should be prisons.
The US economy would have to go into a much deeper depression (3-5 times worse than now) before a “race war” would be possible.
Right now blacks are happy with government, since it’s expanding at a rapid rate and giving them economic goodies and resources that they don’t have the ability to build or secure for themselves (if left to their own devices).
Liberal whites are still well off enough to where they maintain their “blank slater” fantasies and don’t feel the need to express racial solidarity.
Even by blog standards, interviewing Brevik sounds crazy. As in impossible to achieve. How do you reach him anyway?
Brevik was just anotha loss white boy, LOL. Cracka gonna be executed for all the boolsheet he done, LOL. Lara, you fuckin PA yet?
“Lara, you fuckin PA yet?”
Nope.
Hey Chuck, one thing I did notice about the comments following that piece of dreck written by Frasier, is that almost no one is accepting the “white guilt” angle anymore. Just about everybody was calling Frasier out on the b.s. he was spewing. That says something especially considering the Daily Beast is somewhat a liberal rag.
That seems like a conclusion most reasonable Americans could live with.
I guess I’m not “reasonable”. Let’s get on with the trial, which, while mostly agnostic about the case before (I wasn’t there, I don’t know what happened), I hope will become a colossal embarrassment for officialdom in the state of Florida. They deserve nothing less at this point.
Ah yes, the Breivik show trial. Speaking of “reasonable” people, you’d think that what he did would be prima facie evidence of insanity. Yet he was recently declared sane, perhaps in order to conduct this show trial, where they hope to tar everyone who doesn’t think mass third world immigration — particularly of muslims — to western Europe is the greatest of ideas as ‘extremists’ and potential mass murderers.
It’ll probably work too.
As Brendan has said voir dire during jury selection will be crucial in this case and what it will likely stand upon.
Also by time of trial he’s got to get it moved out of Sanford Florida.
Yes I’ve long thought that prison populations should be racially segregated based simply on long experience. Practicality should win out over ideology.
Obsidian,
Admit it. You just got out of prison and you are now a reborn Proud Black Man.
Naturally he’s black.
I think almost every black in this country can be rightfully prevent for cause from sitting on a jury of George Zimmerman. Which is an outrageous state of affairs.
They feel entitled to their great prejudice in this case. I have yet to see a black person on the net who’s fair minded about this case.
that prob isn’t the real obsidian
Okay. Obsidian could sometimes be a jerk, but not this bad, and he was usually much funnier.
Ann Althouse, a law professor at the University of Wisconsin who’s on the moderate right, had a post a few days ago explaining how Zimmerman’s attorney O’Mara will have an opportunity to get this trial dismissed at a “stand your ground” motion for immunity from trial. At the hearing before the judge only he’ll have to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that he was standing his ground in self defense against possible loss of his life or great bodily injury.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/04/stand-your-ground-is-not-defense-but.html
I think the preponderance of the evidence is clearly on Zimmerman’s side that he was acting in self defense.
Note that following Trayvon at a distance to keep him in sight, which we don’t even know he did after the 911 call ended but which Martin’s side claims, is not a crime and does not call into play a “stand your ground” defense on Martin’s side. Profiling Trayvon Martin partly on a racial and age basis (late teen), partly on clothing, partly on not recognizing him as being from the neighborhood, and partly for wandering around looking at houses and possibly casing them for burglary was also not a crime on Zimmerman’s part.
Zimmerman has to atone for the sins of all white people. This is obvious.
The odds he’s going to get a fair trial are slim.
And anyone who doubts that the left sees courts as little more than a political tool is fooling themselves. It has always been the case. All of life is about power – dontchaknow? Courts shmourts.
Justice isn’t justice. Only social justice matters, and in this court, whites are always guilty.
“Justice isn’t justice. Only social justice matters, and in this court, whites are always guilty.”
It’s actually worse than that. In our justice system decent normal people are always guilty and criminals should always have their actions excused no mater the race. If Zimmerman had looked like the typical Latino gang banger it would never have been a national story.
I am sure that Zimmerman feels like he has been mugged by reality now.
It is interesting to see that his lawyer has asked for the female judge to recuse herself. I wonder who the replacement will be and I wonder if the lawyer will move to get the whole charge dropped.
I think this ends either in acquittal or a hung jury mistrial. Anyone else here think that blacks’ insular nature has blinded them to the rise in the hispanic population in the US?
SOBL1
I agree.
However I think there’s a substantial chance that this new judge who’s got 17 years on the bench to the judge he’s replacing 1.5 will throw this case out of court after O’Mara moves for a “stand your ground” ruling by the judge that Zimmerman get’s immunity from trial. To do that he’ll have to show by a preponderance of the evidence that he acted in reasonable self defense against fear of death or great bodily harm. I think he can show the later.
That really bad probable cause affadavit again
Between this and the woman’s pau gap story I just had to blast Rush Limbaugh as loud as the dorks would let me at work.
Unless the prosecutor alleges that Zimmerman faked the blood on the back of his head, the prosecutor is f*cked.
Zimmerman got a reasonably low bail, 150k.
The prosecution had an incentive in pandering to blacks to try to present compelling evidence he committed second degree murder, because if they could under Florida law it would be a reason for the judge to not grant bail. They presented absolutely nothing new.
Further, defense attorney O’Mara actually put Zimmerman on the stand. You don’t do that with most innocent defense clients much less guilty ones. Prosecution got nothing damaging out of it. Yeah the main reason was that Zimmerman wanted to apologize to Trayvon’s family for the death of their son. (Not for shooting him in self defense; rather that he died.)
The prosecution is looking weaker and weaker in this case.
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