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Alex Linder of VNN.
He’d dumb because he misread your business card?
It’s funny how when people’s ideas get rejected they cry conspiracy to explain it away.
Ya’know, like a vast right-wing conspiracy or something…
PA, I’m not sure what you mean.
Never mind. The WN as “dumb” trope is too pavlovian for my liking. It’s zenith was when of all the bad names he could have called Brevik, Moldbug chose “stupid.”
PA,
It’s pointless for me to invest too much mental energy in coming up with a good set of words to describe guys like this. I mean, they reduce every single black person down to “nigger” and everyone who isn’t a hardcore extremist to “kike” and so forth, why should anyone think too deeply about describing them in fine detail? Nah, fuck em.
Chuck, have you been in contact with Hunter Wallace of Occidental Dissent? He probably knows more about VNN, Lindler et. al. than anyone. He’s also been following your coverage of this issue.
To be fair, the VNN crowd aren’t the sharpest tools in the white nationalist shed. Their forum just seems like a place for unproductive & juvenile venting about “niggers” and “kikes”. Some white nationalist sites and publications such as American Renaissance, Occidental Observer, Occidental Quarterly & Counter-Currents can offer some insightful political analysis, not that I necessarily agree with their whole programme (personally I lean more towards Sailer’s citizenism), but they are still worth listening to. It seems like VNN and other such outlets of crude white nationalist rage are used as a diversion to elide over the legitimate issues that the more sophisticated branch of the WNsphere brings up.
David,
I haven’t. To be honest, there’s not much to know about Linder. I just thought it was interesting that he could have denied that he even knew about the papers being distributed to clear the air but he preferred to stick with “no comment”. That’s not about not trusting the media, that’s about wanting to be seen as non-compromising so that the sycophants continue to come back for more.
I think PA’s point was that saying generically that white nationalists are dumb isn’t accurate. For example, whatever you think of him, Jared Taylor certainly isn’t dumb. You may say he’s not a white nationalist but he’s certainly classified as one by the SPLC and their ilk.
Pechorin,
I ran it all together as white nationalist/white supremacist/anti-semite to show that I’m talking about those who identify with all three of those labels.
If I had to pick which one is least stupid, it would be white supremacist. But I qualify that heavily. But even then that term isn’t correct, especially if it’s used by someone who subscribes to the rest of that triad. Because if you criticize the Jews then you probably also don’t believe that Jews aren’t white. But you also believe that Jews are intellectually superior, thus their ability to control the economy and the media. So they’re admitting that whites aren’t superior.
And if you want to be a White Nationalist then you have to quibble with the fact that white people created the very same problem that WN’s are concerned with now. Whites imported slaves, alas.
The correct viewpoint isn’t the white nationalists/supremacists, even the Jared Taylor ilk. Steve Sailer and Charles Murray have it right. There are differences that should be addressed, but there are also facts of life that we can’t avoid.
Basically, anyone who would describe themselves that way is probably not all that bright. Those are lazy terms, and if someone still wants to call themselves any of those then I wonder on what principle they stand.
This was typed out quickly so if it’s unclear I can address it later.
Well? Come now, Chuck.
You may be racially aware but you’re not a WN. You’re a conservative which has very negative connotations in our community. It is what it is. You have to “appear” without bias to get published but then all the articles have a tilt.
You’re not 100% on the white side. You haven’t got enough love or fanaticism to commit to a side, so you’re moderate. You want to see who’s going to win, then pick a side. It’s like those reporters who cover wars – an American reporter will videotape a American soldier who gets shot, but when the reporter is shot, the soldier needs to help him.
This is the meaning of tribal thinking. Race as an extended family. You never chose the other side in public. Some can only apply this to their own family. Thus, they miss the critical step. Meanwhile, it’s instinctive for the enemy. Imagine if that guy was your kid brother.
Ryu,
I take your statement that I don’t have enough fanaticism as a compliment. You’re advocating thinking in terms that I oppose. I reject tribalism in this form. You cannot complain if a black tribalist attacks a white person because you yourself would do the same thing if you weren’t too scared of going to jail for it. I’m going above all of that. I’m opposing tribalism on both fronts.
“You want to see who’s going to win, then pick a side.” – Ryu
ding ding ding
Im off to go read some whorefinder. Good luck ingratiating yourself to your conquerors, Chuck.
Have fun, Douche. Didn’t take long to run off some of you guys.
I’ll become a white nationalist when I actually feel a real threat from another race. Until then, it just doesn’t grab me.
Ryu,
White nationalist talk is depressing to me. Even so, I think they should be allowed to speak freely. Other races have their fanatics and tolerate them, so we should do the same. It doesn’t mean we have to agree with them.
I guess I’m wondering which most closely approximates your feelings about WNs: the frustration a soldier feels feels about his undisciplined comrades, or the hate one would feel for an enemy like al-Qaeda, or the contempt you’d feel for a molester?
[Chuck: Honestly, I don't think any of those metaphors are apt. There's no need to create a metaphor for what it is. I think there is something wrong with someone who obsesses to the degree of Alex Linder (and others who aren't as fanatical, for instance, I think there is something wrong with Ryu). Their argument is rooted in violence. Violence is the beginning of it and the end. And they ignore a lot of other finer points along the way. My feeling about "White Nationalists" - I don't see how that's even a possibility, if we start from my premise which is anti-violence.]
Chuck, I was struck (and disappointed) by your “I’m going above” tribalism comment. If you think you’re taking the moral high ground by acknowledging certain genetic and social racial differences but rejecting any form of White nationalism as merely tribal (while also disparaging its followers as stupid), then I’m a bit confused re precisely on which principles you stand.
Many/most WNs do not consider me White (I have no problem with their thinking; why does every race but Whites get to decide who is a member?), but I consider myself an ethno-nationalist and have very clear principles. As for the “stupid” argument, surely that is a matter of perception? I don’t play the degrees/qualifications/IQ/ticket punch game, but I have plenty of them. To reflexively label people with whom one disagrees as “stupid” is a losing proposition (unless, of course, one’s dealing with proclaimed leftist anti-racists who are delusional and anti-White).
[Chuck: Sheila, My post is mostly in response to Alex Linder. For lack of a desire to invest much time in coming up with an apt description of him and his followers, "stupid" fits. As I wrote above, a lot of the people who subscribe to WN and what not are merely out for blood. I can get behind a Pat Buchanan type of ethno-nationalism. I believe that we should revere what has been built, and I believe that we have a sovereign right to protect it from people without, but when it comes to policing each other through shaming mechanisms i.e. don't interact or socialize with group X, I dissent. I care about preserving the foundations of the country and the principles of personal liberty and personal responsibility, and I care less about who takes part in that.]
If I had to pick which one is least stupid, it would be anti-semite. There is nothing stupid about disliking something; it is merely a question of taste. To call someone “stupid” for hating, e.g., brussel sprouts, is itself an act of stupidity. Sure, brussel sprouts contain some good vitamins and minerals, but those elements can be acquired from other vegetables, or in pill form. Some people are willing to suffer the bad taste and sulphuric afterfarts, in order to enjoy the nutrients; others are not; neither side is “stupid” for making their choice.
[Chuck: But if you started up a website to protest brussel sprouts and if you woke up every morning fuming about how much brussel sprouts have harmed the world, then, yes, I think you are stupid.]
Lara,
If WN talk is depressing to you, you’ve been spending too much time on one side of it. There is a focus on other races where the big issues are interracial violence, immigration, and the jews.
That is what most people know. Then there is a side where WNs talk amongst ourselves about PU, the MRM, feminism, education, and such. GLP is very close to SBPDL which is all about interracial violence. That’s an outside view looking in.
No one “gets” everything the first time they hear it. Unfortunately, there is a progression and no one is above the process. You might try becoming a WN, if only for a change of pace. It must get boring covering every crime blacks commit.
Ryu,
I am all for punishing black criminals quickly and harshly. They’ve proven they need that. Just putting myself in a black person’s shoes, I can imagine it is pretty depressing to think about your race. They can’t even create a livable city, let alone a civilization. I just think white nationalists should thank their lucky stars they aren’t black.
Ryu,
I understand ethnic pride. I grew up with a mother who said often things like, “WASPs do this and that.” It seems a little silly, since most WASPs aren’t anything special. It still works in making me want to behave a certain way, to make us look good to others.
Ryu,
And that’s where you go wrong. My POV is anti-violence. Yours is not. You condone violence and only lament blacks if they beat you to the punch, literally and figuratively.
Chuck, I’ll try to post thoughtful replies later. Meanwhile (their rhetoric of violence aside), do you see any qualitative difference between a, say, Slovak or French nationalist and a WN?
“their putative rhetoric of violence aside,” is better put. From my perspective, contemporary nationalism among whites is defensive and reactive owing to circumstances, rather that aggressive.
Ryu,
You can only fight someone who is willing to fight back.
It’s all nice and lollipops that you have an anti-violence POV, but you have zero influence over the group that exhibits violent mob tendencies. Preaching “2 wrongs don’t make a right” to the victim group does nothing but sustain their roles as victims who rely solely upon unionized govt employees for their protection. You took the hypothetical, exponential retaliation escalation to the extreme in the Oklahoma England case, where 1 begets 3 begets 9 begets 27 .. 81.. 243 until we’re all dead; but that never happens. On the other hand, if 1 begets 0, and the next 1 begets 0, there will always be a next 1, or 100.
Also, to leave it all in the hands of the “Justice System”, is not anti-violence. Criminals do not walk into prisons because they were asked “Please”. Violence is required to capture and incarcerate them. Man and machines commit acts of violence upon the land, and upon concrete and steel building materials to erect prisons.
Power and violence. Might makes right. That is the moral code at the bottom of things.
It is of course an unpopular view today. I only care because our temporal power is smaller than the enemies’, that is correct. The thing that cemented this into my mind was Gordan Kahl. It’s not about feelings, intentions, right or wrong.
It is might, it is action that determines things in this world. Perhaps in heaven God will reward the good and damn the evil. On Earth, it’s whoever is the most violent that judges things. You don’t obey your boss because he’s right. You obey because if you don’t, he will fire you and you’ll be on the streets.
Ryu, you’re right in theory, but how do you go about implementing what you want for our side?
Ryu:
So in short, collective psychopathic behavior along racial lines will save civilization. Yeah, great.
Jesus, you’re like a WN Obsidian. Only with a fucking creepy Columbine kid tinge to it.
Christ, what a bunch of liberal fags preening about how they’re “above” this “creepy” violence thing.
You’re only above it because you are supported, like a spoiled, soft woman, by a civilization that currently protects you from it, or at least threatens to. This facade has an increasingly likely chance of being removed, whether on a personal or collective level.
But keep channeling any remnants of your manhood into cheering on groids chasing balls though, that’s gotten us real far.
You should probably just delete this blog, Chuck, before you are forced to turn it into some kind of Little Green Footballs type embarrassment. I like Daily Caller, but unless there is truly some kind of radical change occurring under the radar there’s no way you can straddle them and us. I’d rather see you doing your work in the Daily Caller, even if you can’t say what you really want to say, than to see your work there get derailed by GLP.
It’s a little crazy to think that liberals (of the modern, non-classical variety) are anti-violence.
Most left -liberals were fans of Stalin during the 1930′s and 1940′s. Later, I’m pretty sure that flaky leftards like Jane Fonda and Shirley MacLaine got their admiration for Mao and Uncle Ho from the social milieu they inhabited. And don’t most liberals still have fond feelings for mass killers like Castro and Che? Recall that Che wrote in one of his memoirs how much he enjoyed ordering firing squads.
Then there’s Nelson “the world’s most beloved man” Mandela who admitted he was a terrorist in *his* memoirs. For details see “Church Street Bombing.”
Fosetti has reviewed some of the memoirs of the defectors from the CP – and pointed out in passing how during the New Deal liberals and Communists were virtually indistinguishable.
As far as political strategy and doctrine go, I’m for local united fronts based on a minimalist political program that is anti-PC, decentralist and proto-secessionist: This in the belief that there is Natural Order to be rediscovered when the coercive apparatus of the American Empire is greatly reduced.
kills me that many of you commenters find fault with me criticizing Alex Linder and the majority of WNs. I wonder how many of you agree with Linder’s content.
Chuck is grasping for a term to describe the faction of WNs that Zeskind has labelled “the vanguard.” He is punching a tar baby by identifying the vanguardists with WN. Linder is a marginalized who is widely loathed in the WN movement.
BTW, VNN doesn’t have any offices in Mobile. It is like the 4chan of WN. This is just a case of one of Rounder’s cronies throwing out some old bulk copies of The Aryan Alternative. I’m pretty sure I know who did it too.
“My POV is anti-violence. Yours is not”
Ah, Chuck, that’s where you go wrong. That’s your error.
Civilisation can only be defended and maintained by the application of force and violence.
Violence is life-giving. Our very existence as organisms results from aggression, from friction.
War is life-affirming.
To deny violence is to reject life.
Violence works.
What does VNN stand for?