Jezebel’s post on the discovery of George Zimmerman’s old Myspace page puts their myopia on display. They wrote:
But an old Myspace account peppered with derogatory insults, uncovered by the Miami Herald and confirmed to be legitimate by Zimmerman’s attorney, might pose some problems in court.
Zimmerman called Mexicans from his hometown of Manassas, Virginia “thugs” and mentioned an “ex-hoe”. As I mentioned the other day, I’ll have to go “Scoreboard!” on that one. If we’re comparing derogatory remarks in this case to establish the character of either Zimmerman or Martin, Martin’s Twitter antics show him to be much more crude and derogatory than Zimmerman. Plus, Trayvon Martin identified with the “thug” lifestyle. He seemingly would have approved of Zimmerman’s use of the word.
That’s by far not the most damning part of Zimmerman’s profile page. But Jezebel is so committed to harping on racism and sexism that they miss the giant shiny object right in front of them. Zimmerman wrote:
I love the fact that I can still go back home and crash on my boys couch as if i had never left, I can hit my boy up to handle a lil somethin with my sister and he’s at my house with his boys on bikes before i hang up with her! They do a year and dont ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched.
He’s talking about a crime and he’s talking about essentially lying to the cops to cover up his involvement in it. The key point in this case is whether Zimmerman is telling the truth about being attacked by Trayvon Martin. If what Zimmerman did when he was in his late teens and early twenties is important in helping us understand his mentality at the time of the fateful shooting in February (is it?), being kosher with a cover-up of some sort trumps derogatory speech. Or, at least I assume an investigator or prosecutor would think so.
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We don’t have good evidence for who started the physical fight other than Zimmerman’s story, which he repeated right after the shot to Sanford police without an attorney many times, the police said five times, Zimmerman said in three different sessions.
That isn’t absolutely dispositive towards the self defense claim but it will be harder for Zimmerman to prevail on self defense if the judge at the self defense immunity hearing thinks it’s a toss up or Zimmerman probably did. However I think it’s much more likely based on circumstantial evidence, that Trayvon started the physical fight.
1) Zimmerman didn’t sound mad at Trayvon, just suspicious of him on the call he made to police, nor did he have a reason to be mad at him. He wasn’t sure Trayvon was casing the neighborhood for burglary, he just suspected it. In contrast Trayvon did have a reason to be mad at Zimmerman. He had reason to feel dissed at being he probably thought racially profiled, suspected, and followed.
2) What Zimmerman said his aim was on the call he made to police was to keep Trayvon in sight so he could point him out to police when they shortly arrived. He expressed frustration on the call when he lost sight of Trayvon. He didn’t say he wanted to question Trayvon or detain him, that’s what he’d called the police to do and he knew they were coming. Nor had Zimmerman ever questioned or detained any other of the persons he’d called into police as being suspicious. In stead according to the Reuters article he’d sometimes followed suspicious to him persons at a distance while awaiting the arrival of police.
3) He knew the police were coming shortly, while Trayvon did not. It would be pretty dumb to start a fight that someone might have seen start, with the police arriving, and neighbors knowing who you are.
4) He had taken a gun training course before getting his concealed carry permit. He would have learned in it that it’s really dumb to start a physical fight when armed, since what did happen could happen with at the very least all sorts of complications for him, or worse the opponent could discover the weapon in the struggle, take it from him, and shoot him. Trayvon didn’t know Zimmerman was armed, whereas Zimmerman wasn’t sure if Trayvon was armed or not.
5) Trayvon was much taller than Zimmerman, 6’2” @160+ to Zimmerman’s 5’8 @ 170. That makes it a lot less likely that Zimmerman would start a physical fight as well.
6) According to Deedee as well as Zimmerman it was Trayvon who started the verbal confrontation between them. We have no reason to think that Zimmerman even approached Trayvon rather than the other way around which is what Zimmerman says and Deedee doesn’t contradict.
Given all that, with no eyewitness as to how the fight started other than Zimmerman, it seems to me that the preponderance of the circumstantial and other evidence indicates that it was probably Trayvon who started the fight. Sure there’s no proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it went down that way but there hardly needs to be at either the self defense immunity hearing or if it goes there at trial before a jury. It is I think however easily a good lot more likely than not.
When I said it’s not dispositive of the case if a jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight, it’s because of this Florida statute.
I’ve bolded the relevant portions.
Stand your ground is unavailable if Zimmerman hit Trayvon first, but he was pinned to the ground and couldn’t escape.
I think provokes there means by an illegal act.
Irritating someone by following them or even asking them what they’re doing around here doesn’t cut it.
Chuck–
I don’t see how you can infer that he lied to the cops to cover up his involvement from what you quoted. All it indicates is that he didn’t turn himself in. The cops may have not know of his possible involvement in any way. As well he may be greatly exaggerating his role and whether anything he did in it was illegal, out of bravado and boasting about how much his crew back home dig him.
I doubt seriously that the prosecution could get that ambiguous mess of a comment made so many years ago admitted in a criminal trial. Danger of unfair prejudice, remoteness, etc.
How old is that page?
doug, divercity:
i think you guys are going a bit further than the point i’m making here. jezebel is just searching for clues on that page that might impugn zimmerman’s character. who knows what will hold up in court. but if you were to look at zimmerman’s myspace page and think about what on that page makes him look like he may be lying or prone to lie in this case then the fact that he was basically gloating about his boys not snitching on him is much more important than the fact that he called some mexicans “thugs”.
When did thugs become a racial slur?
Yeah and he wasn’t saying all Mexicans are thugs, he was talking about particular Mexican thugs in his former town in Virginia. Total clutching for straws, tempest in a teapot.
“He’s talking about a crime and he’s talking about essentially lying to the cops to cover up his involvement in it. ”
and you mean to say that it’s worse than racism and sexism?
“When did thugs become a racial slur?”
It always was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee
Damn George. Looks like the myspace page was probably created about 7-8 years ago, which would make GZ only a few years out of highschool when he created the page. Probably didn’t even remember he had the page up there it was so long ago. Unfortunately if this is admissible the prosecution will make it the centerpiece of their case in attempt to paint GZ in a bad light, not allowing for the fact that he probably did this page before he became a hard-working, married, responsible member of the community. Meanwhile Trayvon’s behavior leading right up to the incident looked like it was starting to take a turn for the worse.
It won’t be admissible. It doesn’t remotely go to Zimmerman’s state of mind on the night of the shooting. It’s too old, he’s talking about Mexicans not blacks, and he talked about some Mexicans in his former home town being thugs, not all Mexicans being that. Big fat zero nothing.
The thought crime think and sensitivity of the left media is just absurd.
Not the part about the Mexicans, but the part about hiding info from police. That might work against his credibility. Most people of avg. intelligence wouldn’t make much of it, but a lot of dummies end up on juries.
i’m saying, guys, that *if* anything is to be gleaned from the old Myspace page, it certainly isn’t his use of the word “thugs” or “hoes”. when i read that page i keyed in on his open admission that some of his friends “went away” for a year and didn’t tell on him. a pretty bold admission on a Myspace page, and more damning, in relative terms, than whatever the hell jezebel thought was important.
I always got what you were saying Chuck and it’s a good point, but I don’t think there’s much there there either, is what I’m saying. For all we know he really didn’t do anything illegal or was at most an accessory after the fact to a minor crime by learning about it and not turning his buddies in. Though i think you have to do something active to throw off an investigation or or hide them from discovery to be that, iirc.
“They do a year and dont ever open thier mouth to get my ass pinched.”
Huh?
(1) No indication that anybody actually did a year for anything. Could just mean, I have the kinds of friends who would be loyal no matter what.
(2) Supposing for a second that they did do something, nothing indicates that anybody lied to the cops. Maybe a friend got busted for drugs and didn’t rat out GZ for the same thing. So?
Good point.
I sense in this case that both the Latino and the black guy had more than a light dusting of “thug worship” at one time. Zimmerman lived long enough to grow out of it.
The confrontation that night had a subtext of dueling masculinities, one black and in thug worship mode, one Latino in Wannabe cop mode.
Sounds like the usual ghetto prospects for the Hispanic community-go ahead and get your friends to beat people up who mess/have sex with with your sister; there aren’t enough jobs to justify not going to prison for a year. Zimmerman was participating in ‘neighborhood justice’ long before he became a cop.
The “my boys” comment is definitely not admissible as evidence about the Martin shooting. I would guess that it IS admissible as evidence about ZImmerman’s credibility as a witness, should he decide to testify on his own behalf. That will complicate whether his legal strategy should include testifying on his own behalf, especially in front of a jury.
Something I’ve seen little commentary on is that before the jury trial (or will he prefer a bench trial?), there will be a mini-trial with just the judge over whether Florida law preclude him even being brought to trial. I am just guessing, but my guess it that he can choose to testify in the hearing before just the judge, but to not testify in the main trial, if he loses in the hearing. If so, he could choose not to use the hearing testimony in the main trial and hence not to have the jury hear about his social media and his arrest record.