I have to thank OneSTDV for slugging through the TV show The Bachelorette. One writes on an incident on the show involving Emily Maynard and a contest from the show named Kalon.
As One points out, Emily is the widow of deceased NASCAR driver Ricky Hendricks. Emily has a six year-old daughter from that relationship. During the show, Kalon told the other guys that Emily’s daughter is “baggage”. Another contestant caught wind of this and snitched out Kalon to Emily (side question: do these snitch men ever get the girl?). Here’s the entire exchange:
A couple of thoughts jump into my mind. First, I see Emily overcompensating for her absence from her young daughter by becoming irrationally upset at Kalon’s statement. Emily talks about ripping Kalon’s arms off and she says that she’s upset so much because she loves her daughter. That’s curious given that she has chosen to jaunt off to London for this TV show which further disrupts the life of a young girl who has already had to deal with a lot.
After the Chief Orbiting Beta shuttles everyone into a room for a confrontation between Emily and Kalon, Kalon provides a rational defense for his choice of words. As he says, any man weighing a future with this woman does have to consider the fact that she already has a child. That’s part of the equation, and it goes in the negative column for any man weighing that decision. Almost no man ever has thought that a child from a previous relationship improves the desirability of a relationship with a woman.
To be somewhat fair to the Bachelorette, more baggage should be associated with the untimely end to her relationship with a rich, famous racecar driver. One whose memory will be forever carried by the daughter they created together. But the show’s contestants are probably competitive in their own right so they probably believe that their good looks and charm can unhinge the pesky memory of any deceased fiancee. What they cannot overcome is the innate aversion to raising another man’s child. Hardly any man can compete with that. “Baggage” is a very diplomatic term to use.
And then we see more emotional outpourings from Emily. She says that she is “so disappointed” in Kalon because he is the product of a single mom and that he should know better. I’d say that this has helped him reach this particular stance on the issue. He’s in a much better position, as a man, to understand what constitutes baggage and what doesn’t. I consider myself to mostly be the product of a single mother, and I also understand that I would have rightly been considered to be baggage as well. My mom, because she’s not irrational and selfish, was hesitant to date other guys after her and my dad split up (and before they got back together) because she knew that another man wouldn’t have much of a vested interest in my brother and I. Sure, any guy she might have had a conversation with on the topic might not have called us “baggage”. This is merely semantics, though, as we would be a burden of some kind. My mom even said it directly to me once. She never remarried or seriously dated during the nine years that her and my dad were split up because she knew she’d never find a man that loved me and my brother the way our real father could.
Most of this is staged and scripted, as I hope everyone knows (use Google to find out how much of reality TV is faked). That said, it’s interesting that this is what they chose to script. My guess as to why is that they needed to add a little drama to people who are otherwise boring as dirt. I’m also guessing that they do detailed demographic studies as to who watches and found that single mothers make up a good number of viewers — and therefore tried to emotionally keep them invested in the show.
Whatever the case, at least the people here are more pleasant to look at than the rejects of “Girls,” not that I’ve ever fully watched either. Someone ought to do a post titled “The More TV Watched, the Stupider the Woman.”
Good analysis. Check this out:
ttp://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/06/emily-maynard-battling-trust-issues-after-kalon-fiasco
Emily is a princess. If I were one of these guys, I’d get out now.
I wonder if these men aren’t that into Emily, so much, as they just want to beat out other men. Men do seem to step up their game when there’s some competition.
Children are baggage since they cause problems and give zero benefit to the man. Each child lowers a woman’s overall SMV by at least a point, with two lowering it by 3 points, and 3 by 5 since it isn’t linear.
This is why women complain about not being able to find men once they have squeezed out a kid or two. Who wants another man’s screaming brat?
The white trash single moms I know are arbitrary and often ack-basswards about when they’re the “protective” and when they are criminally negligent of their kid. They’ll be perfectly nonchalant about their little son or daughter seeing a string of asshole boyfriends sleep over but then they’ll fly off like a bizarro world mama bear when someone is critical, often out of concern for the child, of her or the kid’s situation.
I’d say that this has helped him reach this particular stance on the issue. He’s in a much better position, as a man, to understand what constitutes baggage and what doesn’t.
Interesting…I was also baggage once-upon-a-time (albeit charming and precocious baggage). My step-dad was (is) an absolutely decent man and a fine (step) father who raised me from the age of about two. If any Baggage-Kid had a positive example of the cuckhold, it’s me.
Nonetheless, the thought of taking up with a single-mom is one of those “not just no, but hell no” kind of things to me. Something I know, deep down in my soul, is that Step-Father != Father. It ain’t the same. I know that if I took up with a single-mom, those kids would always harbor the thought that “you’re not really my dad.” Maybe this is just something that Baggage-Kids understand better than others.
In general I a not interested in women with children. However, I think I would make an exception for widows. They aren’t single because of making really dstructive choices in me or because they thought they could trade up.
I think he probably didn’t care to remain on the show any more. Otherwise, he was being pointlessly rude and stupid. Even on reality TV, there are such things as manners. It’s obvious to anyone with a brain that having a child will make them less desirable, in the sense that they will have to find someone that will love the child as well as themself. That said, describing a person as baggage is not a way to win anyone’s affections. It falls in the area of ‘technically correct, but nevertheless amazingly stupid’.
I’ve never watched the show. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read at OneSTDV that the woman was “engaged” to the Italian driver. Please don’t contribute to the further deterioration of our language and equate “engaged” to married. She was not a widow any more than your standard black baby momma (“they done killed my fiance!”) is a widow.
On topic, engaged, assuming she got the ring is essentially married in my book though given the kid is 6, well thats a wobbler. I’d assume she is not a widow and treat accordingly.
I do have to say that its nice to know that my old fashioned views on the value of widows vs. single moms is held by more than a few people.
And a last point, a was talking to a single mom some years back who, openly looking for a husband and father. She was a sweet girl and even though i was uber beta in those days and knew little of women even I know to stay away. However I did feel like giving her some advice, I told her “Its an honor to be asked to be a child’s father but its an honor a decent man can feel free to refuse.”
Even as silly and beta as that advice was (I would never say something like that now) she reacted like I took her hamster out behind the chemical shed and shot it .
I don’t think most women ever really thought that, yes men don’t want to raise someone else’s kid and many of the decent guys (the ones who would make good fathers) won’t.
I look at it this way, if you have a kid of your own, half of the spawns rearing (lets assume to sage 20 for ease of calculation) and genes are yours and half hers.
Someone else’s kids its half hers and 50 of that minus the kids age– so a 6 year old is roughly 17.5% yours — you still get 100% of the expense. I’ve never met a woman worth that.
I don’t think most women ever really thought that, yes men don’t want to raise someone else’s kid…
The women of Generation X definitely got that, as did their mothers. It’s the younger women who don’t get it, thanks to celebrity culture and reality TV shows like this one. An entire generation now does not equate children and marriage. This has been going on in the minority community for years, but it’s now gone mainstream.
Regarding the show, I’m utterly shocked that 25 men are actually competing for the chance to be the *second* most important person in this woman’s life, or the third most important if you count the memory of the deceased fiancé. Protip: whomever she eventually chooses, he’ll never measure up.
your comment made me think…we see lots of surveys and polls asking inane questions about peoples’ tastes and preferences. i can’t recall any polls of single men about how they feel about shacking up with a woman who already has a kid. i’d love to see the results of that poll and compare it to a similar poll asking women the same thing. the stark contrast in the responses would theoretically be instructive.
Presumably the comment was made while he was talking to someone other than the woman. When I am hanging around with a group of other guys I would absolutely refer to a child as baggage. The child is baggage. It’s not rude to acknowledge it. Only crazy moms and reality TV actors would object to this common sense understanding.
This show has a history of this. Maybe 2 seasons ago, they had a bit of a crazy mom on there named Michelle Money. At the reunion show, someone pointed out how she kept claiming to be a good mom but was on the show in the first place. This made her snap dont ever question my mothering. Instead of actually discussing the diea of why a single mom would volunteer for a show and leave behind a toddler, the host defended her and no one kept up the line of discussion. It’s the mom ‘halo’ effect.
The kid as well as dead love of her life are baggage. Airing the dramatics involved with her defense and the beta backstabbers just further spreads the message that men need to man up and not care how many kids these women have. Shouldnt even be an issue boys. She’s attractive, but no man will ever measure up to the dead race car driver.
That she feels she has a right to be outraged that someone feels her daughter by another man is a negative aka baggage in her appeal as a potential wife is just more absurd PC entitlement garbage. Of course virtually all men would feel that way, though some more than others and some would lie to themselves about it more than others, not to mention lying to her about it. Guys who believe genes matter would especially feel another man’s kid was baggage.
So too is the fact that her relationship with her probably very alpha husband ended not because she didn’t get along with him, fell out of love with him, or he repeatedly cheated and she couldn’t stand it, but because he died (presumable in a racing accident). There’s always the very real possibility that she’ll never really love or emotionally bond with another man because of her feelings of continued love for her dead husband.
That it sounds like she’s got a whole bunch of money not because she herself earned it but because she inherited if from her husband would be a plus for most guys who don’t have a ton of money themselves. It’s different than a woman making by being a business mogul or super in demand model. She’s also very good.
CR – I agree that it would be quite instructive to see some stats re men and women’s differing views on partners with children by previous relationships. Before I married, I generally dated older guys and a number of them had exes and children. I gave it a lot of thought, but my nanny experience for a divorced guy opened my eyes quite a bit, re how needy and conflicted the child was, and how hostile the mother was. As much trouble and compromise marriage entails, I thank God every day that at least I don’t have to deal with those complications.
Anecdotal evidence: My hairdresser (not terribly bright and fairly prole) divorced both her husbands for a number of rather superficial, typically-female reasons, but one constant irritant in these relationships was their children with prior wives. This became especially problematic when she finally had a child of her own, with husband number two, and felt the time and money spent on his previous three left her own daughter short changed.
“Regarding the show, I’m utterly shocked that 25 men are actually competing for the chance to be the *second* most important person in this woman’s life, or the third most important if you count the memory of the deceased fiancé. Protip: whomever she eventually chooses, he’ll never measure up.”
(side question: do these snitch men ever get the girl?)
I remember one episode a few seasons ago where one guy ratted another guy out and she kicked them both off on the same date.
If I were on this season, my goal would not be to get Emily but to get to the final three where I could hopefully be picked as the next Bachelor and pick among 25 hot chicks (not to mention all the other female attention that comes through fame and pre-selection). I bet you this is the plan of several guys this season.
This television show is emotional masturbation for single women. Pure dreck. AND it’s a crime that this duped blonde woman has expended precious time away from her daughter. What would be really entertaining is if the child were on the show…the audience could wince and squirm to watch the single guys have one-on-one with the kid ..I can imagine the men weighing the chance to hit that with the fact that they will also have to spend time with a pink clad gnome that won’t stop asking questions.
These shows are wholly staged. There’s no aspect of them not scripted to some degree. It used to be scripts were arranged informally, by participant selection. Now ,this is done, but conflict is generated on purpose. It’s completely transparent. The participants are more or less fraudulent characters – there’s no “reality” in reality TV. I know. I’ve seen it produced.
Think of the movie “The quiz show”. Then multiply by 100x the fakery.
On the topic, though–
We’re talking pure hamster and white knighting, here. There are only two elements worth note.
- Women detest anythign that lowers their SMV. Acknowledgment of anything that detracts from SMV is denied, denied, denied. Attaching the sacredness of motherhood to this defence (“How dare you! I’m a great mom!”) is just a feeble attempt to deflect criticism of the SMV. It’s raw ,unadulterated Female Hamsterwheel.
if you deny loud enough, then maybe it’s true. It’s unlikely to get men to commit any faster when a woman has a kid , but most women and female conversations are little more than social grooming. In a society of women, especially when it comes to social status or social grooming, you’re not supposed to discuss reality – only make soothing comments and acknowledgments. Truth-telling among women is rare on this topic.
- White knights
Whether the game show host (usually fraudulently for the purpose of conflict) is white-knighting, ot other men are, or men are seeming to do so for manipulative purposes, it’s all white-knighting.
Note that this is not beta. If there’s a cash reward and some cheap but good sex with this girl in the offing, fooling her and getting her to ditch one guy for nasty comments is an effective strategy.
So the white knighting I suspect is just a front.
Takeaway: Don’t open yourself up to potential attack by white-knighting manipulators, or actual white knights for that matter.
The actual white knights, … what to say about them?
Most of this is staged and scripted, as I hope everyone knows (use Google to find out how much of reality TV is faked). That said, it’s interesting that this is what they chose to script. My guess as to why is that they needed to add a little drama to people who are otherwise boring as dirt. I’m also guessing that they do detailed demographic studies as to who watches and found that single mothers make up a good number of viewers — and therefore tried to emotionally keep them invested in the show.
Whatever the case, at least the people here are more pleasant to look at than the rejects of “Girls,” not that I’ve ever fully watched either. Someone ought to do a post titled “The More TV Watched, the Stupider the Woman.”
Good analysis. Check this out:
ttp://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/06/emily-maynard-battling-trust-issues-after-kalon-fiasco
Emily is a princess. If I were one of these guys, I’d get out now.
Chuck,
I think you’d be fun as a stepchild, although I can see where you might always try to outsmart a stepparent.
I wonder if these men aren’t that into Emily, so much, as they just want to beat out other men. Men do seem to step up their game when there’s some competition.
Children are baggage since they cause problems and give zero benefit to the man. Each child lowers a woman’s overall SMV by at least a point, with two lowering it by 3 points, and 3 by 5 since it isn’t linear.
This is why women complain about not being able to find men once they have squeezed out a kid or two. Who wants another man’s screaming brat?
The white trash single moms I know are arbitrary and often ack-basswards about when they’re the “protective” and when they are criminally negligent of their kid. They’ll be perfectly nonchalant about their little son or daughter seeing a string of asshole boyfriends sleep over but then they’ll fly off like a bizarro world mama bear when someone is critical, often out of concern for the child, of her or the kid’s situation.
[Chuck: I see it a lot as well.]
I’d say that this has helped him reach this particular stance on the issue. He’s in a much better position, as a man, to understand what constitutes baggage and what doesn’t.
Interesting…I was also baggage once-upon-a-time (albeit charming and precocious baggage). My step-dad was (is) an absolutely decent man and a fine (step) father who raised me from the age of about two. If any Baggage-Kid had a positive example of the cuckhold, it’s me.
Nonetheless, the thought of taking up with a single-mom is one of those “not just no, but hell no” kind of things to me. Something I know, deep down in my soul, is that Step-Father != Father. It ain’t the same. I know that if I took up with a single-mom, those kids would always harbor the thought that “you’re not really my dad.” Maybe this is just something that Baggage-Kids understand better than others.
I have html issues
In general I a not interested in women with children. However, I think I would make an exception for widows. They aren’t single because of making really dstructive choices in me or because they thought they could trade up.
I think he probably didn’t care to remain on the show any more. Otherwise, he was being pointlessly rude and stupid. Even on reality TV, there are such things as manners. It’s obvious to anyone with a brain that having a child will make them less desirable, in the sense that they will have to find someone that will love the child as well as themself. That said, describing a person as baggage is not a way to win anyone’s affections. It falls in the area of ‘technically correct, but nevertheless amazingly stupid’.
I’ve never watched the show. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read at OneSTDV that the woman was “engaged” to the Italian driver. Please don’t contribute to the further deterioration of our language and equate “engaged” to married. She was not a widow any more than your standard black baby momma (“they done killed my fiance!”) is a widow.
I assure that I have never watched a second of the show on TV. I found this story on HuffPo.
Good point on the hypocrisy and motivation behind her overreaction.
These shows are as real as pro wrestling.
On topic, engaged, assuming she got the ring is essentially married in my book though given the kid is 6, well thats a wobbler. I’d assume she is not a widow and treat accordingly.
I do have to say that its nice to know that my old fashioned views on the value of widows vs. single moms is held by more than a few people.
And a last point, a was talking to a single mom some years back who, openly looking for a husband and father. She was a sweet girl and even though i was uber beta in those days and knew little of women even I know to stay away. However I did feel like giving her some advice, I told her “Its an honor to be asked to be a child’s father but its an honor a decent man can feel free to refuse.”
Even as silly and beta as that advice was (I would never say something like that now) she reacted like I took her hamster out behind the chemical shed and shot it .
I don’t think most women ever really thought that, yes men don’t want to raise someone else’s kid and many of the decent guys (the ones who would make good fathers) won’t.
I look at it this way, if you have a kid of your own, half of the spawns rearing (lets assume to sage 20 for ease of calculation) and genes are yours and half hers.
Someone else’s kids its half hers and 50 of that minus the kids age– so a 6 year old is roughly 17.5% yours — you still get 100% of the expense. I’ve never met a woman worth that.
I don’t think most women ever really thought that, yes men don’t want to raise someone else’s kid…
The women of Generation X definitely got that, as did their mothers. It’s the younger women who don’t get it, thanks to celebrity culture and reality TV shows like this one. An entire generation now does not equate children and marriage. This has been going on in the minority community for years, but it’s now gone mainstream.
Regarding the show, I’m utterly shocked that 25 men are actually competing for the chance to be the *second* most important person in this woman’s life, or the third most important if you count the memory of the deceased fiancé. Protip: whomever she eventually chooses, he’ll never measure up.
Matt,
your comment made me think…we see lots of surveys and polls asking inane questions about peoples’ tastes and preferences. i can’t recall any polls of single men about how they feel about shacking up with a woman who already has a kid. i’d love to see the results of that poll and compare it to a similar poll asking women the same thing. the stark contrast in the responses would theoretically be instructive.
@Matt 11.03:
Presumably the comment was made while he was talking to someone other than the woman. When I am hanging around with a group of other guys I would absolutely refer to a child as baggage. The child is baggage. It’s not rude to acknowledge it. Only crazy moms and reality TV actors would object to this common sense understanding.
I refer to my own kids as baggage. Some day, when I’m old, they’ll refer to me as baggage.
This show has a history of this. Maybe 2 seasons ago, they had a bit of a crazy mom on there named Michelle Money. At the reunion show, someone pointed out how she kept claiming to be a good mom but was on the show in the first place. This made her snap dont ever question my mothering. Instead of actually discussing the diea of why a single mom would volunteer for a show and leave behind a toddler, the host defended her and no one kept up the line of discussion. It’s the mom ‘halo’ effect.
The kid as well as dead love of her life are baggage. Airing the dramatics involved with her defense and the beta backstabbers just further spreads the message that men need to man up and not care how many kids these women have. Shouldnt even be an issue boys. She’s attractive, but no man will ever measure up to the dead race car driver.
That she feels she has a right to be outraged that someone feels her daughter by another man is a negative aka baggage in her appeal as a potential wife is just more absurd PC entitlement garbage. Of course virtually all men would feel that way, though some more than others and some would lie to themselves about it more than others, not to mention lying to her about it. Guys who believe genes matter would especially feel another man’s kid was baggage.
So too is the fact that her relationship with her probably very alpha husband ended not because she didn’t get along with him, fell out of love with him, or he repeatedly cheated and she couldn’t stand it, but because he died (presumable in a racing accident). There’s always the very real possibility that she’ll never really love or emotionally bond with another man because of her feelings of continued love for her dead husband.
That it sounds like she’s got a whole bunch of money not because she herself earned it but because she inherited if from her husband would be a plus for most guys who don’t have a ton of money themselves. It’s different than a woman making by being a business mogul or super in demand model. She’s also very good.
CR – I agree that it would be quite instructive to see some stats re men and women’s differing views on partners with children by previous relationships. Before I married, I generally dated older guys and a number of them had exes and children. I gave it a lot of thought, but my nanny experience for a divorced guy opened my eyes quite a bit, re how needy and conflicted the child was, and how hostile the mother was. As much trouble and compromise marriage entails, I thank God every day that at least I don’t have to deal with those complications.
Anecdotal evidence: My hairdresser (not terribly bright and fairly prole) divorced both her husbands for a number of rather superficial, typically-female reasons, but one constant irritant in these relationships was their children with prior wives. This became especially problematic when she finally had a child of her own, with husband number two, and felt the time and money spent on his previous three left her own daughter short changed.
@ Inkraven
“Regarding the show, I’m utterly shocked that 25 men are actually competing for the chance to be the *second* most important person in this woman’s life, or the third most important if you count the memory of the deceased fiancé. Protip: whomever she eventually chooses, he’ll never measure up.”
Nailed it.
It’s likely that most men on reality shows like Bachelorette aren’t so much interested in getting the girl but in getting airtime and becoming famous.
(side question: do these snitch men ever get the girl?)
I remember one episode a few seasons ago where one guy ratted another guy out and she kicked them both off on the same date.
If I were on this season, my goal would not be to get Emily but to get to the final three where I could hopefully be picked as the next Bachelor and pick among 25 hot chicks (not to mention all the other female attention that comes through fame and pre-selection). I bet you this is the plan of several guys this season.
“Presumably the comment was made while he was talking to someone other than the woman.”
It was made to his competitors…in other words, he had to know what he was doing.
This television show is emotional masturbation for single women. Pure dreck. AND it’s a crime that this duped blonde woman has expended precious time away from her daughter. What would be really entertaining is if the child were on the show…the audience could wince and squirm to watch the single guys have one-on-one with the kid ..I can imagine the men weighing the chance to hit that with the fact that they will also have to spend time with a pink clad gnome that won’t stop asking questions.
These shows are wholly staged. There’s no aspect of them not scripted to some degree. It used to be scripts were arranged informally, by participant selection. Now ,this is done, but conflict is generated on purpose. It’s completely transparent. The participants are more or less fraudulent characters – there’s no “reality” in reality TV. I know. I’ve seen it produced.
Think of the movie “The quiz show”. Then multiply by 100x the fakery.
On the topic, though–
We’re talking pure hamster and white knighting, here. There are only two elements worth note.
- Women detest anythign that lowers their SMV. Acknowledgment of anything that detracts from SMV is denied, denied, denied. Attaching the sacredness of motherhood to this defence (“How dare you! I’m a great mom!”) is just a feeble attempt to deflect criticism of the SMV. It’s raw ,unadulterated Female Hamsterwheel.
if you deny loud enough, then maybe it’s true. It’s unlikely to get men to commit any faster when a woman has a kid , but most women and female conversations are little more than social grooming. In a society of women, especially when it comes to social status or social grooming, you’re not supposed to discuss reality – only make soothing comments and acknowledgments. Truth-telling among women is rare on this topic.
- White knights
Whether the game show host (usually fraudulently for the purpose of conflict) is white-knighting, ot other men are, or men are seeming to do so for manipulative purposes, it’s all white-knighting.
Note that this is not beta. If there’s a cash reward and some cheap but good sex with this girl in the offing, fooling her and getting her to ditch one guy for nasty comments is an effective strategy.
So the white knighting I suspect is just a front.
Takeaway: Don’t open yourself up to potential attack by white-knighting manipulators, or actual white knights for that matter.
The actual white knights, … what to say about them?