The Daniel Tosh rape joke story has moved fast. One thing I find interesting about this – and something which I myself took to Twitter to find out – is that Louis CK is now the go-to point of reference for any controversy in the field of comedy (of which there’s been a lot of late as the Offended Class senses weakness and has transitioned into its death roll).
CK seemingly supported Tosh by telling him via Twitter that he laughed at his show every time and that he has pretty eyes. At least a couple of bloggers are now frustrated with Louis CK over this. Alyssa Rosenberg of Think Progress is now glad she didn’t buy tickets to CK’s upcoming show. Last week, though, CK was the Offended Class’ darling after his show has poked fun at the patriarchy and at conservative politics.
Amanda Marcotte pushed back against Tosh’s defenders who say that Tosh was responding to a heckler and, thus, fair game:
Tearing down hecklers, especially if you’re funny about it, is a venerable tradition in stand-up comedy and no one wants to see it go away. But there’s a good way to go about it and a bad way. By invoking rape to put down his heckler, Tosh reinforced broad cultural narratives that use the threat of rape or domestic violence to take away women’s rights as women. By saying rape is an appropriate response to women that are out of line, he’s borrowing from and contributing to a culture where juries let rapists off all the time because they disapprove of the victim’s actions, such as if she were drinking or wearing a short skirt.
Marcotte misses something big here. Tosh was already telling a joke about rape. He was on a bit about how rape jokes are always funny and the woman at the center of this controversy piped up and said she disagreed *right during the middle of a show which other people had paid to attend*. After the heckle (why are hecklers usually always women?) he attempted to apply the joke that he was heckled for to the heckler. He stayed with the joke but essentially brought her in as a prop. So for Marcotte to argue that Tosh’s response was out of line she’d have to establish that the entire bit was out of line. And she probably senses that most people don’t think that comics cross the line by making jokes about rape – especially if they aren’t actually out raping women.
To go back to the original Tumblr write-up which got this all started – another element of this story is that the woman at the center of the controversy knew nothing about comedy clubs or how the entire thing works before she and her friend went to the Laugh Factory in L.A. She starts her Tumblr tirade by pointing out that her and a friend were just looking to do something fun and yadda yadda they wanted to see what this comedy club thing is all about. So she’s a newbie; she thinks that stand-up comedy is interactive, and thinks that comics should face a Derrida-like deconstruction on stage even while they’re still in the middle of a bit. The woman writes:
So Tosh then starts making some very generalizing, declarative statements about rape jokes always being funny, how can a rape joke not be funny, rape is hilarious, etc. I don’t know why he was so repetitive about it but I felt provoked because I, for one, DON’T find them funny and never have. So I didnt appreciate Daniel Tosh (or anyone!) telling me I should find them funny. So I yelled out, “Actually, rape jokes are never funny!”
I did it because, even though being “disruptive” is against my nature, I felt that sitting there and saying nothing, or leaving quietly, would have been against my values as a person and as a woman. I don’t sit there while someone tells me how I should feel about something as profound and damaging as rape.
The personal is political, we see. This neophyte thinks that comedy is about “someone telling” her how she should feel about something. That’s not what it’s about. It’s about a bunch of people paying someone to get up on stage and be funny or outrageous or entertaining and attempting to achieve those goals through different comedic means, one of which is absurdly flipping conventional wisdom or conventional belief on its head. In theory, the comedy club should be treated like a movie theater. Interaction is off the table unless the performer wants to bring the crowd into it. But if a movie is offensive, people just leave. They don’t shout at the screen, and even if they did it doesn’t mess up the actors or the projectionist. It’s obviously different with comedians as their act can be derailed by the crowd.
A huge part of stand-up these people don’t get is that comedians talk about taboo subjects to make them less scary and so no one group has primary power in any one domain of discourse. And there is the real reason, buried beneath the verbiage, why feminists/women don’t complain about such jokes: they want to be the only ones who are allowed to mention such issues.
That’s why they call them “Feminazi’s,”Because they feel the need to control others beyond a reasonable standard,including freedom of speech in a public place.
They must control the “Narrative” otherwise word of their deceptions and true nature would spread.
Raping good article by the way!
I bet you get accused of being a patriarchal raype culture enabler…
The supremacists think they can nag the world into compliance like an old hag wife.
“So I yelled out, “Actually, rape jokes are never funny!””
I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen a woman NOT laugh at a rape joke…about men being raped.
I’ve forgotten the name of one comedienne who actually did a bit about making a false rape report, suggesting that she’d accuse her ONS of rape just so that she could see him again at the police line-up. The women in the audience were practically rolling on the floor over that one.
Now, what was this feminazi saying about rape jokes never being funny?
She ‘didn’t know’ not to interrupt a professional entertainer while on stage performing?BS.
She had no idea comedians hassle hecklers?BS
She felt entitled as a strong empowered women to attack his space and attempt to shame-silence him.
Arrogance of the highest order,then an attempt to cover that up by squealing ignorant victim.
Standard tactics.
Agree with ya werner,jail rape or castration jokes go over big with the fem crowd.
Or the infamous penis removal.Hilarious!
I bet she laughs at husband beating jokes too.
Which may be fine during a nightclub act,but not in general public,as they wont to do.I’m betting she’s seen Tosh’s TV show,were he’s made similar raype jokes,and premeditated the altercation.
That’s a good point about stand-up being like a movie- there *should* be no interaction between the audience and the entertainment, but because of the live nature of stand-up some yappy bitches will take advantage and spout off at the mouth. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should, and that chick got put in her place.
I’m curious about what Tosh actually said. Of course this indignant chick left out the important details about context that would shed light on the situation, but that probably would do little to build sympathy for her case. She said Tosh made declarative statements about how could rape jokes not be funny; I’m curious as to what his punch line was, because knowing Tosh it was probably pretty funny. See the link below.
What annoys me most about people who complain about offensive things is that they are taking things too literally. Rape is not funny, obviously. But that doesn’t mean that a comedian couldn’t craft a joke around rape that is funny. For example check out the Tosh clip embedded in this article about the controversy at the Daily Beast.
But to play devil’s advocate for a minute… as a dad, the thought of a joke about a child dying could almost certainly never be funny to me. And so I could see how jokes about rape (which is very traumatizing, but less so than a child dying) would never be funny to some people, especially rape victims. Anyone agree with this? How is joking about rape and a child dying any different? Is it a difference in degree or kind?
Or is it just impractical to actually use a child dying as a springboard for a joke?
I think it’s more the latter. The thought of a child dying- just the thought of that in your head- kills any other thoughts and replaces them with pure depression and horror. Whereas, for whatever reason, the thought of rape doesn’t have the same effect in many people’s minds. This actually may be the fault of feminazis who have labeled so many minor things as rape that the term has lost its impact and so it have been diluted into something not all that bad (at least when it is described by femdom) in alot of people’s eyes.
There’s all sorts of things I don’t find funny, some of it because I disagree with it on a moral level. But I’d never try to tell someone they can’t say it.
So true. If you don’t like an act, you remove yourself from it, you don’t open your mouth to have a debate.
Years ago, i found jokes about cancer hilarious. One of my favorite skits was on Robot Chicken where Optimus Prime develops prostate cancer and dies. They eventually turn it into a public service announcement.
I can still watch it today and even tho i wince at times, i recognize it for what it is. It doesn’t matter that my brother died of cancer four years ago at the age of 35 and devastated my life going through it. My trauma isn’t anyone else’s problem nor should they have to curtail something created for mass consumption. If someone knew of my pain and singled me out to be mean and cruel about it then yes.. i’d probably first warn, then slug the fucker.
I don’t get trigger warnings. People who have dealt with suicide don’t get trigger warnings when people joking about how they feel like shooting themselves or feel like they got hit by a bus because they’re so exhausted. So why is rape the only special trauma that people need to amend their lives for in order to avoid the possibility of offending someone.
Just as someone can joke around me about how getting cancer is a great way to lose weight if they’re fat… as was done around me yesterday, i did not flip out or react. The joke was just that, a joke. And if the next time i open my MasterCard bill and say ‘Holy fuck these usurious fucks are ass-raping me’.. it in no way is endorsing rape or adding to this bullshit term ‘rape-culture’. It’s just a joke!
Part of Tosh’s shtick is that he’s this clueless upperclass twit that doesn’t realize how offensive he is to normal people. Almost all of his routine is geared towards not just delivering the punchlines but poking fun at the stereotypical character he plays to deliver them.
I’ve talked to some people (mostly blacks, but I’m sure full-time feminists activists like the cunt complaining applies as well) that have such a pejorative view of whites that this aspect of Tosh’s routine goes completely over their head. Part of the complaint is that Tosh wouldn’t be laughing if the jokes were directed at people like him, when his routine really hinges on him doing exactly that.
I remember an old routine by Chris Rock or Eddie Murphy or some black dude that was about this subject. The main punchline was “What, you think rape can’t be funny? Picture Elmer Fudd raping Bugs Bunny. That’s funny, right?”
I can’t say I find rape to be a particularly funny topic. However, women don’t have a monopoly on feeling that way. I’m guessing the falsely accused Duke lacrosse players or the Sandusky victim don’t find rape jokes funny.
This really just proves that Sofia’s “feminists have autism” theory is pretty much dead-on.
I really think alot of them think Tosh was literally advocating that this woman be gang-raped, and not simply saying something outrageous for the purposes of comedy.
“use the threat of rape or domestic violence to take away women’s rights as women.”
what logic is that? Aren’t these those crimes that quite strongly reinforce the victim’s sex as woman?
“culture where juries let rapists off all the time because they”
don’t simply believe what she said even though usually they are there in the first place only on what she said.
Tosh would have so much better off if he had said something like Louis CK, who made a joke about the heckler’s mom raping a homeless guy, thus flipping the narrative.
The same leftists who thought that jokes about a retarded child who was the offspring of a numbskull VP candidate were ok, are the same ones outraged about rape jokes. How would they react to jokes about a half-white presidents children looking like a unibrowed freak and fatty?
Female comedians wonder why men don’t find them funny. This is the reason. The image of American women is that of people who are too uptight to laugh and anything and want to censor comedians. When women attempt to be funny, they’re doing so within this cultural context and it makes it hard to laugh — it’s kind of like the asshole teacher who thinks he can befriend you because he sees you at 7-Eleven.
No, I don’t really find those funny…anymore. What’s the difference between a truckload of dead babies and a truckload of bowling balls? You can’t unload a truckload of bowling balls with a pitchfork. I used to think that was hilarious, but now any mention of a dead baby hits too close to home (and to be clear, a child of mine hasn’t died, I’m just saying the thought alone is horrifying enough to me). But the dead baby jokes are different than standup. So even if a dead baby joke could momentarily elicit a laugh, the “man that’s fucked up” thought quickly disspells any humorous effect. I think great comedy doesn’t rely so much on shock value…that’s a cheap way to get a rise out of people.
Naema-
I didn’t find anything in that clip funny. But I was biased going into it, I’ve never thought O’Leary was funny at all. Him or Colin Quinn.
A huge part of stand-up these people don’t get is that comedians talk about taboo subjects to make them less scary and so no one group has primary power in any one domain of discourse. And there is the real reason, buried beneath the verbiage, why feminists/women don’t complain about such jokes: they want to be the only ones who are allowed to mention such issues.
sorry there’s shouldn’t be a ‘don’t’ before ‘complain’.
That’s why they call them “Feminazi’s,”Because they feel the need to control others beyond a reasonable standard,including freedom of speech in a public place.
They must control the “Narrative” otherwise word of their deceptions and true nature would spread.
Raping good article by the way!
I bet you get accused of being a patriarchal raype culture enabler…
The supremacists think they can nag the world into compliance like an old hag wife.
“So I yelled out, “Actually, rape jokes are never funny!””
I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen a woman NOT laugh at a rape joke…about men being raped.
I’ve forgotten the name of one comedienne who actually did a bit about making a false rape report, suggesting that she’d accuse her ONS of rape just so that she could see him again at the police line-up. The women in the audience were practically rolling on the floor over that one.
Now, what was this feminazi saying about rape jokes never being funny?
She ‘didn’t know’ not to interrupt a professional entertainer while on stage performing?BS.
She had no idea comedians hassle hecklers?BS
She felt entitled as a strong empowered women to attack his space and attempt to shame-silence him.
Arrogance of the highest order,then an attempt to cover that up by squealing ignorant victim.
Standard tactics.
Agree with ya werner,jail rape or castration jokes go over big with the fem crowd.
Or the infamous penis removal.Hilarious!
I bet she laughs at husband beating jokes too.
Which may be fine during a nightclub act,but not in general public,as they wont to do.I’m betting she’s seen Tosh’s TV show,were he’s made similar raype jokes,and premeditated the altercation.
That’s a good point about stand-up being like a movie- there *should* be no interaction between the audience and the entertainment, but because of the live nature of stand-up some yappy bitches will take advantage and spout off at the mouth. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should, and that chick got put in her place.
I’m curious about what Tosh actually said. Of course this indignant chick left out the important details about context that would shed light on the situation, but that probably would do little to build sympathy for her case. She said Tosh made declarative statements about how could rape jokes not be funny; I’m curious as to what his punch line was, because knowing Tosh it was probably pretty funny. See the link below.
What annoys me most about people who complain about offensive things is that they are taking things too literally. Rape is not funny, obviously. But that doesn’t mean that a comedian couldn’t craft a joke around rape that is funny. For example check out the Tosh clip embedded in this article about the controversy at the Daily Beast.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/11/why-daniel-tosh-s-rape-joke-at-the-laugh-factory-wasn-t-funny.html
But to play devil’s advocate for a minute… as a dad, the thought of a joke about a child dying could almost certainly never be funny to me. And so I could see how jokes about rape (which is very traumatizing, but less so than a child dying) would never be funny to some people, especially rape victims. Anyone agree with this? How is joking about rape and a child dying any different? Is it a difference in degree or kind?
Or is it just impractical to actually use a child dying as a springboard for a joke?
I think it’s more the latter. The thought of a child dying- just the thought of that in your head- kills any other thoughts and replaces them with pure depression and horror. Whereas, for whatever reason, the thought of rape doesn’t have the same effect in many people’s minds. This actually may be the fault of feminazis who have labeled so many minor things as rape that the term has lost its impact and so it have been diluted into something not all that bad (at least when it is described by femdom) in alot of people’s eyes.
Dick –
There’s all sorts of things I don’t find funny, some of it because I disagree with it on a moral level. But I’d never try to tell someone they can’t say it.
“as a dad, the thought of a joke about a child dying could almost certainly never be funny to me.”
Seriously?
http://dead-baby-joke.com/dbj_001.htm not one of those are funny to you?
So true. If you don’t like an act, you remove yourself from it, you don’t open your mouth to have a debate.
Years ago, i found jokes about cancer hilarious. One of my favorite skits was on Robot Chicken where Optimus Prime develops prostate cancer and dies. They eventually turn it into a public service announcement.
I can still watch it today and even tho i wince at times, i recognize it for what it is. It doesn’t matter that my brother died of cancer four years ago at the age of 35 and devastated my life going through it. My trauma isn’t anyone else’s problem nor should they have to curtail something created for mass consumption. If someone knew of my pain and singled me out to be mean and cruel about it then yes.. i’d probably first warn, then slug the fucker.
I don’t get trigger warnings. People who have dealt with suicide don’t get trigger warnings when people joking about how they feel like shooting themselves or feel like they got hit by a bus because they’re so exhausted. So why is rape the only special trauma that people need to amend their lives for in order to avoid the possibility of offending someone.
Just as someone can joke around me about how getting cancer is a great way to lose weight if they’re fat… as was done around me yesterday, i did not flip out or react. The joke was just that, a joke. And if the next time i open my MasterCard bill and say ‘Holy fuck these usurious fucks are ass-raping me’.. it in no way is endorsing rape or adding to this bullshit term ‘rape-culture’. It’s just a joke!
Part of Tosh’s shtick is that he’s this clueless upperclass twit that doesn’t realize how offensive he is to normal people. Almost all of his routine is geared towards not just delivering the punchlines but poking fun at the stereotypical character he plays to deliver them.
I’ve talked to some people (mostly blacks, but I’m sure full-time feminists activists like the cunt complaining applies as well) that have such a pejorative view of whites that this aspect of Tosh’s routine goes completely over their head. Part of the complaint is that Tosh wouldn’t be laughing if the jokes were directed at people like him, when his routine really hinges on him doing exactly that.
I remember an old routine by Chris Rock or Eddie Murphy or some black dude that was about this subject. The main punchline was “What, you think rape can’t be funny? Picture Elmer Fudd raping Bugs Bunny. That’s funny, right?”
I can’t say I find rape to be a particularly funny topic. However, women don’t have a monopoly on feeling that way. I’m guessing the falsely accused Duke lacrosse players or the Sandusky victim don’t find rape jokes funny.
“The supremacists think they can nag the world into compliance like an old hag wife.”
In fairness, they’ve been doing a pretty damn good job of it for the last hundred years or so, especially the last 50.
Spike – that was George Carlin.
This really just proves that Sofia’s “feminists have autism” theory is pretty much dead-on.
I really think alot of them think Tosh was literally advocating that this woman be gang-raped, and not simply saying something outrageous for the purposes of comedy.
“use the threat of rape or domestic violence to take away women’s rights as women.”
what logic is that? Aren’t these those crimes that quite strongly reinforce the victim’s sex as woman?
“culture where juries let rapists off all the time because they”
don’t simply believe what she said even though usually they are there in the first place only on what she said.
Tosh would have so much better off if he had said something like Louis CK, who made a joke about the heckler’s mom raping a homeless guy, thus flipping the narrative.
“the thought of a joke about a child dying could almost certainly never be funny to me. ”
an interesting account of feminist distaste for humor.
http://www.heretical.com/toa/intro-2.html
The same leftists who thought that jokes about a retarded child who was the offspring of a numbskull VP candidate were ok, are the same ones outraged about rape jokes. How would they react to jokes about a half-white presidents children looking like a unibrowed freak and fatty?
Pingback: Another Rape Joke Heckler « Gucci Little Piggy
Female comedians wonder why men don’t find them funny. This is the reason. The image of American women is that of people who are too uptight to laugh and anything and want to censor comedians. When women attempt to be funny, they’re doing so within this cultural context and it makes it hard to laugh — it’s kind of like the asshole teacher who thinks he can befriend you because he sees you at 7-Eleven.
Even Jezebel deferring to the comic wisdom of Louis CK now.
http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke
ADS-
No, I don’t really find those funny…anymore. What’s the difference between a truckload of dead babies and a truckload of bowling balls? You can’t unload a truckload of bowling balls with a pitchfork. I used to think that was hilarious, but now any mention of a dead baby hits too close to home (and to be clear, a child of mine hasn’t died, I’m just saying the thought alone is horrifying enough to me). But the dead baby jokes are different than standup. So even if a dead baby joke could momentarily elicit a laugh, the “man that’s fucked up” thought quickly disspells any humorous effect. I think great comedy doesn’t rely so much on shock value…that’s a cheap way to get a rise out of people.
Naema-
I didn’t find anything in that clip funny. But I was biased going into it, I’ve never thought O’Leary was funny at all. Him or Colin Quinn.
It’s the tragic lack of a sense of humor.
Isn’t this the problem with the Stalins and Ayatollahs of the world?