Kicking. Squealing.
Porn star Aurora Snow makes an argument (h/t Obsidian) about women’s consumption of porn which is similar to the one recently made by Amanda Hess in Slate about hook-up apps. Snow writes:
I can’t help but wonder if the porn industry has missed an incredibly large demographic by not making films more specifically suited for women. Perhaps this is because of its history. The directors, company owners, distributors, adult-store owners, and even the customer base are all predominately men. In more recent years the adult business has seen a rise in female directors, but the marketing hasn’t changed.
Aurora Snow, via Zimbio
Yet there is no shortage of romance novels written by and for women even though we can assume that publishing companies have mostly all-male boards of directors. Somehow, despite the desire of the patriarchy to hinder female sexuality, those particular expressions of it have found their way to the marketplace. Snow continues, blowing:
But it may be. Penthouse has a line of films aimed at women (though the plotlines are often thin). Companies like Girlfriends Films aim to create products for women. Despite being very successful at what they do, these companies primarily make lesbian movies that may not always be what straight women want. Yet even these are often marketed for a male audience.
So much of what is out there is for men, and as we all know within the male-dominated sex industry, men fast-forward through the storytelling and setups, so these expensive-to-produce points are glossed over or ignored.
That’s the point isn’t it? Men don’t want to form relationships as prelude to sex. A plot line is just like getting to know someone. It is an investment of time and mental energy. A hook-up sex app also implies a drop-out, not an investment in a plot line or a series of dates. Male-centered porn is designed exactly like the male-centered sex-app: turn on, meet up, get off, goodbye.
Yet sex columnist Dan Savage thinks that the hetero hook-up app Bang With Friends may succeed:
By definition the guys a woman meets through Bang With Friends aren’t strangers. These are guys that the women on the site know. (In theory at least—some people are Facebook friends with strangers.) And while a woman can certainly be victimized, infected, sexually assaulted, or knocked up by a guy she knows, a woman is more likely to… know something about a guy she knows. She’s likelier to have some sense of whether this guy is a good guy or a bad guy, she may know other women he’s been with (or, ahem, she may know the woman he’s currently with), and she may have some friends in common. That last bit is especially important: a sexually impulsive act with someone in your social circle comes with a degree of social accountability. Anonymous hookups do not. And it’s that degree of social accountability that’s key, I think, to making a Grindr for straight people work.
Lesbians don’t have any of these fears; what is the rape rate among lesbian women? Yet there is no successful hook-up app for lesbians.
Any number of arguments from the realm of evolutionary psychology can be made here. The sexual selectivity of women is an ingrained function of their reproductive capabilities and physical differences between the sexes. It is at least possible – though few of these people will even entertain the notion – that evolution, that trickiest of processes, conjoined obvious and natural biological differences on the mind. That would make the purpose of those biological differences all the more easy to implement, wouldn’t it? If “nature” had a purpose in casting men and women of different body sizes and reproductive gear works, why would “nature” not develop a process that would accommodate those biological differences?
It’s just entertaining to see blank slatists begin with an argument and then switch up all of the assumptions to the point that by the end of their examination they’ve created a completely different story. Yeah, women are just as horny as men if you relax constraint X and provide inducement Y and make assumption Z.
It will be interesting to see how feminists react when Bang With Friends fails, and it will. I expect there will be a lot of goal-post shifting and complaints about why this one still didn’t get it right.
This one is easy. The porn with any sort of plot, dialogue, or that contains “non-porn related” props or background = Porn for chicks. Men still watch it, guys just fast forward through everything that doesn’t deal directly with the task at hand…
Oh for crissakes, yet another woman in film who thinks she’s got the groundbreaking, never-before-tried idea of making porn … For women. I suppose I shouldn’t be disgusted anymore, the hamster was long ago proven to have no brain or memory to think anything other than what feels good to believe and gets her published in the MSM for a few weeks. Reset the clock, 15 months or so more until the next woman in film has this great never before tried idea.
Aurora was so hot when she first came in. Red hair (I believe natural), a young innocent face and perky natural boobs. Man, she let herself go.
i don’t think she let herself go. women don’t run into the wall; the wall runs into them.
Women consume and utilize a lot of porn. Just not a lot of visual porn. As was stated, romance novels are porn and have become extremely graphic in the last few years. The library buys a lot of erotic novels for women now. We have a genre of uban fiction which is straight up violent porn, lots of anal rape scenes. We cant keep those on the shelves. Writers have come out with porn versions of Jane Austen, featuring a very randy Mr Darcy, and recently an erotic novel was published featuring a naughty Jane Eyre. We always feverishly fantasized about our literary icons as sexual partners. There is a great scene in the movie Heavenly Creatures where the teen protaganists are all hot and bothered over Orson Welles as Mr Rochester. A lot of times when I comment on blogs about romance novels as porn devices, I get nasty comments from men. They think that their porn is superior to our porn and we women are not getting off in the “right” way and that we should come around to their way of thinking. I don’t care how men get off, why do they trip on womens’ habits. Somehow romance novels threaten some men, as they feel the novels represent an unrealistic ideal for men to live up to. Who cares, visual porn is unrealistic and romance novels are too, but they both serve their intended purposes.
The porn directed at men is filled with, to my eyes, a lot of odd looking people, both men and women. The women of porn are so unnatural looking that it is a huge turn off. They have their own strange style, like pro wrestlers and ballroom dancers. They just look weird and to someone from the SF bay area, really hokey and uncool. They look not unlike male to female transexuals posing as mormon miss america contestants. It has always seemed strange to me, as, to my mind, there is nothing more beautiful than a natural girl between the ages of sixteen and thirty. Most of them need no enhancement. But men are attracted to female porn stars and that is the important thing, from the producers’ point. I am not a purchaser, so who cares what I think. After the artificial look, comes the turn off of female porn stars utterly fake orgasmic moans and gyrations. I just watched a documentary on former porn stars and one woman said that fans just knew her orgasms were real, when, of course, they weren’t. Men can’t tell the difference or don’t care, but I find it distracting and silly. But again, it’s not really my business, cuz I rarely watch it and would never buy it, except as a present.
Anyway, if I have to watch porn I prefer to watch gay male porn to straight male porn. No women, and the often very good looking men are authentically enjoying themselves. Gay men are always gung ho for sex with/in front of strangers. Women not so much. There is a genre of Manga graphic novels directed at teen girls that feature gay male romances that are extremely popular right now. All the Asian-American girls are gobbling them up, (how about that for a word picture?) In any case, I don’t think there is a fix to get women interested in visual porn. Those who like it already watch it and those of us who don’t are happy as we are. Well, maybe if Hugh Jackman and Russell Crowe made a porno with each other. I’d watch that fer shure! A couple a few times!
Porn use (whether visual or textual) is detrimental over long-term use to men and women alike, primarily because it skews expectations — for sex, emotional engagement, what is attractive and the like. It’s reshaping sex in our culture in unhelpful ways, but this is a trend that is unlikely to stop any time soon.
As for the rest of the OP, of course the app won’t be popular with women — why would it be? Women don’t *need* an app to get laid casually — derp. That has nothing to do with whether the app is written by men, or whether the people are Facebook friends or anything else — it just isn’t needed for a woman to get laid. It’s something that is trying to fill a market that, on the female side, doesn’t exist because women have no need of it to get whatever sexual access they want or need.
I think the reasons why female produced (and aimed) porn tends to skew lesbian are (1) that way the producers only have to work with women, which is kind of the point of getting away from the men working in porn to begin with and (2) women who *do* view visual porn often don’t like the men who appear in straight porn visually — they prefer gay male porn (as we can see from the post here — which is not uncommon, really, even Susan Walsh said much the same thing some time ago). And women-produced porn isn’t going to have films that feature only *men — that would be completely contrary to the point of being essentially a female-only enterprise which is a respite from the “male dominated and expolitative porn industry”, so they opt for mostly lesbian films. Of course their audience is predominantly male anyway (as it would be for any kind of visual porn, even the kind with a good amount of plot and dialogue), but they do get the lesbian crowd as well.
@Miss C:
What a strange and distorted mind you have. Actual human beings are “odd looking people” but fiction and cartoon characters are not?
I guess that’s true for some of the older female stars, who often resort to heavy makeup and plastic surgery to try and stay in the industry. But girls who aren’t stars almost always start off as natural young ladies — Which is actually what men want, and what they get until ultimately these ladies hit the wall several years into their careers (see picture above). Being in the porn industry is hard on your body, and the people getting into porn in the first place are often the type of female beauty that has a short lived flowering in their teen-twenties and then dies shortly thereafter.
Aurora was so hot when she first came in. Red hair (I believe natural), a young innocent face and perky natural boobs. Man, she let herself go.
That’s the trend with US porn women – as time goes by they get face jobs to tighten their features and pull their skin way too taut (like Meg Ryan did) along with over-exaggerated, medically augmented huge lips and fake tits, and then they gain weight on purpose to get a gigantic ghetto ass. Think Coco Austin (who is nasty, by the way)
Some thoughts on “porn for women”:
-Twilight is porn for women. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if young women masturbated while reading it.
-When they get older, say around 25, they transition to “50 Shades of Grey”. Same general theme, but a little raunchier. IIRC, 50 Shades was originally Twilight fanfic.
-Romance novels are porn for women. And many of these romance novels include rape scenes, a great example of the maxim that chicks dig (violent) jerks.
-Agree with Camlost – Coco Austin is nasty. And that really doesn’t do her justice, she makes me physically ill when looking at her.
Well, maybe if Hugh Jackman and Russell Crowe made a porno with each other. I’d watch that fer shure! A couple a few times!
Wait… wasn’t that the plot of Les Pis?
Does Dan Savage have any straight friends? For a guy who purports to give relationship advice, it all seems to boil down to “act more like a gay guy.” Very helpful, Danny boy.
Women don’t need a lot of theatrics. Just give her a cute neighbor or coworker. That does the trick.
I actually much prefer my porn with a “setup”(not necessarily a long story)… also, I hate and loath tattoos on women.
One interesting thing is to compare interracial porn to interracial romance novels… IR porn is about 85% of the time BM/WW… while ir romance novels are lopsided in the other direction with like 85% WM/BW… 10% WM/Other Women… and 5% Non-White Men/WW
Offtopic, but those in the “manosphere” should look at the pictures trending on ManCandyMonday to see what girls like.
http://topsy.com/s/ManCandyMonday/image?window=d
A lot of times when I comment on blogs about romance novels as porn devices, I get nasty comments from men.
Sissies perhaps.
The idea of romance novels, the raunch, being the woman’s version of pornography, is just so. The slow and steady, emotional payoff.
Adult males who will not see this are scared of wanton woman. Score one for the feminists, on that point.
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Sex columnist Dan Savage is an asshole.
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Women’s sexuality is frightening – they select for pleasure. For any latecomers, to repeat, the patriarchy – the structure of male authority – is to contain women’s sexuality, their pleasure seeking.
I have no idea who linked to this today but this is the best thing I’ve ever read on female sexuality….
http://www.sexpertslounge.com/2013/02/11/erotic-plasticity-how-female-sexuality-may-be-shaped-by-social-factors/
Pornography online and where ever else – is a problem. It activates the pleasure centers in the brain to where they become, how to say, situationally determinant.
Maybe that is not the right phrase – a forefront motivator, in life. How dysgenic is that. And unlike drugs and booze it requires … nothing in acquirement. It is there and provided. People are dieing off with it.
What is more, it is palliative in these conditions in which women’s sexual selection is primary, and there is racial contest.
Of course, an awful lot of romance novels are written by men and published under women’s names.
They just look weird and to someone from the SF bay area, really hokey and uncool. They look not unlike male to female transexuals posing as mormon miss america contestants.
Hasn’t been true since the 1980s. Porn stars now look pretty much exactly like girls from the SF Bay area.
I was going to say. I don’t want my porn stars looking like they’re from sanfran.
I really think the MSM outlets are being willingly played in these oh-my-god-porn-for-women-has-never-been-done-before articles. Id of woman in film: I’d like to do porn movies, that would be fun. Superego of WIF: But there’s lits of pornographers who’ve done this a long time, and aren’t making money, why are you different? Ego hamster: I’m a woman naking porn for women, that’s it! I’m groundbreaking! Slate/HuffPo/whoever: Sure, I’ll give you a writeup. It gives me an excuse to vaguely bitch about patriarchy and help a girl out in a male dominated business at the same time. Nine months later, this filmmaker has fallen off the face of the earth, and the latest thing on my girl’s friends list is a 50 Shades novel or Marky Mark movie, not porn for women. Nine months after that, another woman in film with the revolutionary idea that she’ll make porn for women!
“i don’t think she let herself go. women don’t run into the wall; the wall runs into them.”
Doing porn and the lifestyle that goes with it only accelerates this.
It is still true today. Many porn stars obviously were high T teenagers and as adults it shows in their faces and physiques.
There is certainly a porn aesthetic of extreme body proportions as well that strikes outside of the boundaries of representations of idealistic beauty outside of pornography. It’s like a comic book or cartoon made flesh, and I think it’s a result of the medium diluting the visceral reaction to signifies of beauty, or perhaps from becoming inured due to addiction.
Look at the “2/10 would not bang” phenomena, or Game blogs where you always have the commenters calling an obvious 7+ a 5. A great many porn addicts are probably not interested in women who are merely beautiful (for masturbation fodder at least, but no doubt would trip over themselves for any cute girl) and need extreme outliers in proportion, often surgically altered women to trigger their biological reaction to sexual imagery.
I give this example of exaggerated body proportions hitting mens’ sweet spots. An orange beetle of Australia, the species of which consist of large dimpled, orange females and smaller duller males. They had a problem some years back where a beer company put their beer in orange dimpled beer bottles. Men would toss the bottles out of their cars and trucks as they drove down the roads (aka breeding grounds of the beetles.) The male beetles, seeing large orange dimple- lee objects would swarm all over the bottles spewing and wasting beetle semen like crazy. The male beetles preferred the bigger, oranger bottles to the real females hands down. They completely ignored the female beetles. The beetles became an endangered species and the Australian government had to ask the beer company to change their bottles so the female beetles could get some action once again. This echos many (white) mens’ reactions to seeing the naked women on the tv series “Girls” in that they are repulsed by a woman’s unsanitized and unreconstructed body now after being pornified. I say white men because most Black and hispanic men are not as picky. Their reputation for tapping anything is well deserved. I had a black male co-worker who used to say, “If she’s naked, she’s a ten!” Lumps, bumps and bulges are not a hindrance to Black and Hispanic guys arousal. They are impregnating dumpy chicks left and right. A pretty face means you’re pretty, my friend from Panama tells me. She says though she’s in her 60′s she would wear a bikini in Panama, but never on a beach in the US. American white guys like their women like they like their Wonderbread and meat, cut to the same size and shape, packaged in plastic, and devoid of actual flavor. They are spewing and wasting semen too. I think this also has to do with being circumcised. White American men get less pleasure from vaginal intercourse and more from masturbation. White guys’ big brains get them in trouble, over thinking things, going nature one better. This does not bode well for the white mans’ survival as a species. But I don’t care, I don’t plan to be here too much longer anyway.
“A pretty face means you’re pretty”
And as long as you aren’t obese, that’s exactly what it means in the United States.
“American white guys like their women like they like their Wonderbread and meat, cut to the same size and shape, packaged in plastic, and devoid of actual flavor.”
Exactly! But Camlost isn’t even fully white! (lol!)
miss c: “This echos many (white) mens’ reactions to seeing the naked women on the tv series “Girls” in that they are repulsed by a woman’s unsanitized and unreconstructed body now after being pornified.”
Of course, Lena Dunham is only unfuckable because there is too much porn! Gotcha.
come on now, non-whites have standards too, they are just different. AA’s want the huge bubble but, and many make claims that “flat as a board” Caucasian butts are distasteful. there are some black guys who score some hot women who also happen to not also be black, hot white women are for the wealthy, famous, or successful black gentlemen. However, the average Joe black guy isn’t getting those chicks, If they do date white women its generally 1-2′s who are very obese and have huge self esteem issues.
and honestly i don’t personally know any white guys who admit to wanting a plastic barbie doll look alike, they like them real, just not real fat, or real hairy.
Philly, you just proved my point. You think Lena Dunham is unfuckable Why?
Philly, you just proved my point. You think Lena Dunham is unfuckable Why?
Cuz she ugly. With or without porn.
Stickman, yeah, when black men are very successful they will hook up with a totally artificial pornified chick such as Beyoncè, Coco or Kim Kardashian (who I still think is beautiful, but will not be able to stop cutting off her parts a la Cher and will end up a total freak). I was in line at a theater when a black Oakland Raider got out of a pickup truck that had Texas plates. He was with a blonde chick who looked just like Pamela Anderson on a good day. Surgery city. All the white guys in line gawped in amazement. The reason some black men are erotically attracted to such women is because they see them as the white man’s ideal and they are putting one over on whitey by putting it to the women most white men can only jack off to. I know a few really good looking light skinned black guys who like very dark black women, or fat black women, or older black women, or often a combination of all three. They don’t care what white guys think. I remember when BB King told Conan O’Brian he mostly consorted with older women in his younger days and O’Brian got a sneery face on and asked,”Why?” And BB King just shook his head as if to say, if you don’t know, I’m sure I can’t help you, and said. “Lord love em!” As for the commenter dissing women of San Francisco, nonsense, not everyone has tattoos and dreadlocks. There are many beautiful, feminine, stylish women here, but they tend toward a less surgeried, organic appearance, than say Texans or Miamians.
Conan O’Brien should talk. He wanted to sleep with his roommate’s mother, just so he didn’t graduate college as a virgin.
missc – To use the words and ideas of CH, if you don’t know why men are attracted to young, slender women then your rationalization defense hamster must be spinning in overdrive. As I mentioned before, Lena Dunham looks like a cross between Alice the Goon and Moe Howard.
I was in line at a theater when a black Oakland Raider got out of a pickup truck that had Texas plates. He was with a blonde chick who looked just like Pamela Anderson on a good day. Surgery city.
LOL, that was a stripper. Guaranteed.
It’s not that hard to get a stripper in bed, you don’t have to be a famous athlete.
And Kim Kardashian is nasty. Messing with chicks who date black males is the easiest way to increase your STD exposure risk by a factor of 100.
Dan Savage is a fucking EP-denialist putz. His opinions should not get a national platform.
Philly, my ex-boyfriend, once said, I am pretty sure it was on our first date, “You can never make up for missed sex.” Even with a woman who looks like Lena Dunham. Just think of it as a notch on your bedpost. As in, “I boffed that intellectual, actress chick with the hit show. The one with the big soft ass. She keeps sexting me, she can’t get enough of me, but I’ m just not that into her.”