Steve Sailer spots the U.S.’s least literate cities:
5. Anaheim, Calif.
4. El Paso, Texas
3. Stockton, Calif.
2. Corpus Christi, Texas
1. Bakersfield, Calif.
A travesty for which more immigration is a solution, argued Sailer sarcastically.
You may recall the New York Times’
recent complaint that there are too few kids books with Hispanic protagonists. They assumed that supply from the top had no link to demand from the bottom. That Hispanic immigrant children didn’t have books with nino protagonists because white publishers were practicing some form of racism. Not only is it true that Mexican immigrants and their children and grandchildren don’t shop at bookstores in America – which is why Laredo, Texas was recently the largest city in America without a book store –
they also don’t read all that much in Mexico.
The Even Steven white person reads twice as many books in part or in full in a year as the middle black and Hispanic. We could assume that the books read by whites would also be of higher quality too. That’s a good deal more knowledge cascading throughout the white community.
International statistics of reading literacy are quite interesting to look at. The commonly accepted story is that America is a mediocre nation, but that is when we lump all races together as well as immigrants with natives. America is less homogenous than the countries to which it is compared. Some seem to think that just because we’re America that we can overcome certain demographic handicaps and that if we don’t we’ve failed some sort of American promise.
As
Tino Sanandaji and
Jason Richwine have pointed out in two different places, when you control for demographics on PISA test scores, the U.S. looks pretty good compared to other countries. The average reading literacy score for U.S. 15 year olds is 500.
Racially, the scores break down like this: whites (525), blacks (441), Hispanics (466), and Asians (541). In terms of reading literacy, American whites score just behind South Korea and Finland and just ahead of Canada. American Asians score right ahead of South Korea. American blacks beat out only Mexico, and American Hispanics beat out Mexico and Chile. This despite the fact that the households of
American blacks and Hispanics have much higher incomes than
other countries scored on PISA. This indicates that income, the usual scapegoat for achievement shortcomings, is much less important than either culture or genes – or, more likely, the combination of both acting in tandem.
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Yes, the USA comes out fantastic if you compare its whites and Asians to the whites and Asians of the rest of the world. You can’t hope to understand any statistics about America if you don’t break them down by race. For instance, southern states have extremely high poverty rates, and this fact is commonly interpreted to mean that the South is full of poor stupid whites. However, the white poverty rate in the South is not much higher than it is in the North. The black and Hispanic poverty rates are also fairly similar in the North and South. Of course, the black and Hispanic rates are 2.5 to 3x higher than the white rate, and what states have the highest concentrations of blacks and Hispanics?
Speaking of cold hard facts that shatter the income scapegoat, there’s the fact that whites from families earning under 10k per year outscore blacks from families earning over 100k per year on the SAT, to say nothing of poor Asians… The explanation for this is that poor white trash is benefiting from all sorts of privilege like, umm, erm, I’ll get back to you on that.
I don’t believe for a minute that the average white reads 19 books in a year, unless we’re talking comic books. Discounting books read for coursework, you could probably count on one hand the number of books that my classmates in college would read during a year — And these were the top 1% most intelligent people in the country. Heck, I don’t remember reading any books at all during college if you discount my coursework.
On the other hand, I’m not sure what the book metric is supposed to mean or show here. Reading online and shorter articles has supplanted books for many people.
@Reym. Statistics isn’t your strong suit, is it?
@Reym again . . . Look at the questionnaire from the study. They asked “how many books have you read, IN PART OR IN FULL,” also specifying that books read online counted. So, every time you flip through a Google book someone links to, that would count as far as the study was concerned, and as the study made clear in its questions. A median of 10 seems quite reasonable to me.
Plus, the questionnaire also asks about all reading materials, not just books. I’m sure the data from that portion of the study would mirror the data presented here.
“I don’t believe for a minute that the average white reads 19 books”
True.
Women who love romance novels can burn through one a week no problem. but for the rest of the population, reading one or two books per month is a pretty high hurdle.
@SDL: Care to dial back the snarky shit? My response is directed at what Chuck wrote and not digging into the statistics themselves. And the point, since you seem to have missed it, is that figuring this out has methodological issues. If it’s as broad as you claim, then I probably “read” 1,000 books a year, but that’s hardly an accurate representation of how much I actually read.
The median is 10 which I about 8 higher than I would expect.
I read about 15 books a year. I also have no job and no friends. I just finished Actual Ethics.
“there’s the fact that whites from families earning under 10k per year outscore blacks from families earning over 100k per year on the SAT,”
That is total nonsense; it’s actually closer to the opposite —— none of which derails the fact of aggregate disparities in IQ and test results between the races.
Nonsense like the above quote is what paralyzes HBD from gaining mainstreasm consideration as much as anything arising from the p.c. orthodoxy. At the least, many believers certainly don’t know how to help their own cause.
Regardless of the methodology, I’m impressed with the gaps between median and mean. In each race, there are a small number who read voraciously. These readers leave a messy trail of books in their bedrooms and bathrooms. They walk into doorways while reading. They sneak books into their classroom texts. As little boys, they hide under their blankets with a light reading to 2 am. They mispronounce big words because they’ve never heard them spoken in real life. This is my son.
@Reym. My apologies. It was early when I wrote that, and I’m never in a good mood when it’s early.
@Nikcrit: According to the article linked below (the famous one from a black studies journal), the mean White score for students from families earning less than 20k = 978. The mean Black score for students from families earning over 100k = 922.
http://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/why-ses-does-not-explain.pdf
This has been replicated a few times, as far as I know, using various measurements for g. You can dispute the methods and whatnot, but Chuck’s statement is far from being “total nonsense.”
@Nikcrit: The article SDL linked to above is from 2008 or so… here’s another one from 2005.
http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
“”"”"
Explaining the Black-White SAT Gap
There are a number of reasons that are being advanced to explain the continuing and growing black-white SAT scoring gap. Sharp differences in family incomes are a major factor. Always there has been a direct correlation between family income and SAT scores. For both blacks and whites, as income goes up, so do test scores. In 2005, 28 percent of all black SAT test takers were from families with annual incomes below $20,000. Only 5 percent of white test takers were from families with incomes below $20,000. At the other extreme, 7 percent of all black test takers were from families with incomes of more than $100,000. The comparable figure for white test takers is 27 percent.
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board’s 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.
“”"”"
The black mean SAT score with a family income over $200,000 is 981.
The white mean SAT score with a family income under $20,000 is 978.
The white mean SAT score with a family income between $20,000-$40,000 is 995.
http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index012209_p.html
The chart is under Family Income Differences Explain Only a Small Part of the SAT Racial Scoring Gap.
RE: “This has been replicated a few times, as far as I know, using various measurements for g. You can dispute the methods and whatnot, but Chuck’s statement is far from being “total nonsense.”
First of all, which “Chuck” are you referring to? I wasn’t responding to this blog host, or referencing the runner of the lesacredutemps blog you linked to in your response (who also goes by Chuck.
My comment was a response to the commenter who goes by “Well,” which is at the top of this string.
Anyhow, I went to that black scholar mag link that supposedly confirms Well’s claim: I couldn’t cut-n-paste the relevant paragraph, because it’s a PDF file, but it’s at the bottom of the first page of the link upon opening it: bottom line is, it says blacks who come from family income of “over $200,000 per-year” scored slightly lower than whites whose family incomes were “$20,000-$40-000″ —– which is quite different and implies a radically different scenario than “under $10,000″.
To be clear, to the point and save character spaces: I’m not a blank-slater, but I’m also not ‘HBD essentializer” as I put it: I believe in both nurture and nature as prime sources of causation; I think when deconstructed, they eventually merge; I think I!, “g’ and their proxies are relevant, and show what’s valued in our here-and-now, and that racial/IQ corrolaries are relevant as long as all races value the ‘upside’ of those corroloaries —— then it can’t be argued with.
But I do think the totality of the HBD argument, when presented by hard partisans, is waaayyy to deterministic.
Having said that, I’d be the first to agree that “social parity’ is a liberal shibboleth that exists only as rhetoric and isn’t even really desirable, when you think about it.
Someone beat me to it.
Not really. You just need to accept reality.
From soren’s link:
That seems very close to what Well stated. It’s at least close enough to be far away from ‘total nonsense’.
@nitcrit,
I’d be the first to agree that “social parity’ is a liberal shibboleth that exists only as rhetoric and isn’t even really desirable, when you think about it.
what do you mean by that, “isn’t even really desirable”?
check, the link I responded and referenced teh black scholar mag article was sent in a follow-up by “SDL,” —– not “Well,” who made the intial (false) statement about black-vs.-white SAT scores along yearly income lines.
@Nikcrit, that “well” guy did not make a false statement at all.
” Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was … and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.”
And the $200k black score is more comparable to the under $20k white score than the $20k-$40k score.
nikcrit, I stated “whites from families earning under 10k per year outscore blacks from families earning over 100k per year on the SAT.”
At http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html it states:
“Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.”
So how was my statement false? Please supply some data.
I was simply building off of Chuck’s point that income is the classic scapegoat, but a closer look reveals that controlling for income doesn’t bring you close to parity. Apparently I touched a nerve.
“what do you mean by that, “isn’t even really desirable”?”
Nothing that profound or intently felt; just that the sort-of blind liberal goal of ‘everyone being the same and having the same goals, abilities, desires and outcomes,’ is not only something I don’t think is possible, it’s also not desirable IMO.
For instance, a lot of HBD’ers are objectively convinced of the science, and that belief gels with their aesthetic/cultural distaste for blacks, so they tend to merge the science into some sort of metaphysical bogeymen, and that’s where the nonsense begins.
However, myself, as well as many white people, are aware of the disparities denoued by HBD, but I like “black life,’ ‘black culture,’ as well as “white culture; one does not negate the other, which is hardly a morally noble belief, but just a reality of my formative experience and history.
Along those lines (@Kyle), I get the impression you see yourself as some persecuted racial truthteller, and every encounter need be confrontational —– but, no, I do “accept reality” and don’t have a problem reconciling black life, love and culture with its oh-so occidentally more brilliant cousin…..Haydn-vs-Armstrong; Mahler-vs.-Ellington —– it be’s all good to me!!! lol!
Well,
The link YOU cited says $200,000-vs.-$20,000-to-$40,0000, not “under $10,000″……the former is the figure I’m familiar with, and the article you linked to regurgitated that figure. Or was it SDL’s link? Anyhow, it’s the link that was at the lesacredutemps-link.
Anyhow, I doin’t deny disparities, as I’ve said in this msg string and in every comment I’ve ever made on the matter here; I was talking about the way these stats get bloated in a partisan way after the fact.
If whites are sooo much more intelligent than Hispanics and blacks, why do 15% of them still believe Obama is a Muslim, or that global warming is a sham created by scientists for… reasons? Truth is, dividing people up by race is stupid. There are dumb whites and dumb blacks. It is likely that ghetto culture does destroy intelligence from forming in many young minorities. It is likely that whites go to better schools and have better parents, who instill in them a thirst for knowledge. Cool beans.
None of this race talk is relevant to my personal life. It doesn’t matter to me if America is 60% white or 100%, if I am threatened by tyrants, anarchy, or crime. I only want some things from the government: a good infrastructure, a good school system, a good law system.
Let’s maintain the bill of rights, protect equality before the law, and yes, we can even allow for the more intelligent to still gain more money (but not an obscene amount of it either. I hate how the stupid white-Asian bankers who caused this recession are stlil billionaires) and life will pretty much sort itself out. Who cares if the dumb masses of Latinos and blacks (that’s what you’re basically saying, so don’t even try to hide the sense of smug racial superiority) are poor, so long as we can still make money and read our books? Their dumb poverty doesn’t take away from my intelligent smug prosperity. Heck, from a purely selfish point of view, having more dumb people in a society will help us out, giving us more pliant, submissive employees.
Basically, the minorities are here to stay. You can either cry about it, exaggerate the racial differences and claim the impossibility of race mixing… or you can accept our diverse ethnic stock and move on with your life.
Reading is a solitary activity. Can’t do it when there are tios and sobrinos running around at all hours. Hispanics see you reading and they think you’re going all Ice People on them.
For instance, a lot of HBD’ers are objectively convinced of the science, and that belief gels with their aesthetic/cultural distaste for blacks, so they tend to merge the science into some sort of metaphysical bogeymen, and that’s where the nonsense begins.
LOL, I see you’re trudging out the old Obsidian argument that there’s an HBDer somewhere who doesn’t (gasp) like black people (oh, the horror), so let’s try to circumvent or controvert the rational arguments put forth by anyone you don’t agree with.
The truth is that I like black people on a personal level, they’re typically pretty funny to hang out with (and especially to party with, provided that the situation doesn’t get too black).
Obsidian just can’t seem to get grasp this concept and separate the personal from the scientific – when I once demanded an answer on whether he thought that it was possible that black males were rarely monogamous due to them not being selected for that trait (in the evolutionary sense) – he simply conceded with a “maybe” and then immediately went back to his diatribe about how I “hate” black people even though we’d already spent thousands of words talking about our common interests in classic rap music.
At my age I’ve dropped all the PC bullshit and I come to sites like this to be very realistic about my thoughts about the link between genes and behavior, especially considering my transition from young hyperliberal to older business owner conservative. And going to 13 years of mostly black public schools has taught me quite a bit about how blacks behave, in a whole variety of situations – call me the Jane Goodall of HBD when it comes to observing blacks in their natural environment. :-O
Dave,
How can you say that it is stupid to divide by race when individuals divide by race at the micro level with amazing consistency? People self-segregate, and so it is important to look at how immigrant Hispanics will fold into larger society. Will they be net contributors? Will they do the types of things we’d hope that new immigrants will do, or will they be burdens to a degree which we’ll have to devote lots of energy and money into bringing up to par with the rest of society? Liberals will have us spend tons of money to make up for gaps in education, reading, IQ, test scores, college attendance, income, and all of those things, but they won’t acknowledge that Hispanics don’t care about those types of things all that much and that they’ll hang out with people who look like them and also don’t care about those types of things.
To continue:
While some people may not like the aesthetics of their new cities and states which are overrun by newcomer immigrants, for people like myself it is more about having smoke blown up my ass that everything will be perfectly fine and normal when immigrant masses or minorities increase in number. It’s a rebellion against the “diversity is strength” propaganda. Do you actually believe that diversity is strength or that immigrants who come here in huge waves will fold seamlessly into our society or that we’ll be better off for it?
@nikcrit. I think your responses around here are always reasoned and fair, and I agree with you that HBD science can too easily become essentialized away from its complexities by certain kinds of HBDers.
Anyway, I don’t think there’s any debate here; you’ve refined Well’s point a bit, but the larger point (that disparities in income do not explain disparities in SAT scores) I think we all agree on. And I think that larger point was Well’s point anyway. You’ve just moved it away from its exaggerated form, which is important to do.
Dave,
If blacks and hispanics want to overthrow the U.S. government, I’d be grateful. I don’t see much of an independent streak in African Americans, as long as they are being fed. I’m not sure about hispanics, yet.
It doesn’t matter to me if America is 60% white or 100%, if I am threatened by tyrants, anarchy, or crime.
The ethnic/racial composition of a country matters quite a bit if you consider standard of living across the globe. That’s reason enough for concern.
@SDL and nikcrit
My last post on this thread. Please go to http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Then press Control+F (or do whatever you need to do to use your browser’s find feature) and copy and paste:
Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000
Perhaps I’m being overly sensitive, but the reason I go to blogs like this one is to be able to make a well-substantiated statement of fact and not be told that it actually isn’t true.
Except it’s not exaggerated.
Ohhhhhh Dave!
If whites are sooo much more intelligent than Hispanics and blacks, why do 15% of them still believe Obama is a Muslim,
Because he acts like one? He is certainly closer to a Muslim culturally than any President, by a long stretch.
or that global warming is a sham created by scientists for… reasons?
Because it is. Why? Money. Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of money. Also, fame and media adulation (witness Al Gore).
Ask an atheist liberal if they actually think Obama believes his Christian beliefs and they’ll say no even though he’s said he’s Christian but they’ll use the same logic to denounce the Christians that don’t believe him either. Also this white liberals who “don’t care about race” almost always live in a predominately white area.
So much irony, peterike. So much.
Quick question: what is a “Hispanic”? I see a lot of talk of Mexican but, as Im sure you Obelisks of Brilliance are aware, there are other ethnicities that fall under the umbrella of Hispanic.
Dave makes a good point. I’ve been reading Fred on Everything and have been getting a different perspective. He makes a case that technology and urbanization are what ultimately kills freedom, and more freedom does make life better.
I understand hispanic to be anyone whose first language is Spanish. It encompasses a large number of people, from a lot of countries.
SDL: “Anyway, I don’t think there’s any debate here; you’ve refined Well’s point a bit, but the larger point (that disparities in income do not explain disparities in SAT scores”
Agreed. I was wrong in saying “the inverse was true”‘ I guess I allowed my annoyance at the sort of spite in the remark to color the objective truth, as I was familiar with and accepted “black-over-$200k-vs-white-between-$20k-$40k disparity.”
So, I allowed m\y displeasure to color my objectivity in this instance; I stand corrected.
Camlost: “LOL, I see you’re trudging out the old Obsidian argument that there’s an HBDer somewhere who doesn’t (gasp) like black people (oh, the horror), so let’s try to circumvent or controvert the rational arguments put forth by anyone you don’t agree with.
The truth is that I like black people on a personal level,…”
No, I’m not ‘trudging out’ that or anything Obsidian has said (though I know O is the default proxy in the HBD blogosphere to vouchsafe anything that’s ‘authentically’ black; lol!).
I’m not making a moral judgement about whether a HBD believer personally does or doesn’t like black people; I’m saying when they don’t and they objectively do adhere to HBD theory, it’s easy for them to exaggerate and essentialize.
When have I ever as much as hinted that I believed that every person who believes in HBD personally dislikes African-Armericans; based on exchanges with you over the past year or so at Guy White/Sagat/OneSTDV, I consdier you a prime example of “black-loving bigot.” (Lol!; joke, but y ou know what I mean).
@Well. I was using the article I’d posted as my baseline for the discussion with Nikcrit, and that article uses the 20-40k range as its lowest White income bracket. Your article certainly does indicate that dirt-poor Whites still outscore upper-middle Blacks.
I may be mistaken, but I assume that Nikcrit simply thought your original post was triumphalist in tone, so, given that context, it came across that “outscore” is much more drastic than it really is. The Gap at the Rich Black/Poor White intersection is, however, comparably slight. So, both our data sets indicate that income does play some role in SAT scores and the Black/White Gap.
Anyway, your point stands. I think Nikcrit was simply looking for the statistic to be properly contextualized: Poor Whites do outscore Rich Blacks, but not at the wildly disparate levels you see when income is not controlled for.
Trouble:
What does it matter? Mexicans or El Salvadorians – they bring the same burdens with them.
One more mea culpa:
I should note that commenter Well’s remark jibed with his data link; I claimed it didn’t,but i cited a later commenter’s link of a study (SDL’s), rather than Well’s original link.
So, this one’s all on me.
I’m saying when they don’t and they objectively do adhere to HBD theory, it’s easy for them to exaggerate and essentialize.
Yes, but when arguing any point it’s often necessary to “exaggerate and essentialize”, wouldn’t you agree? Otherwise, what’s the point?
This is especially relevant if you’re arguing against political correctness, which keeps people from telling it like it is.
I actually tracked down the SAT technical bulletin which was the original source for the whites-$10,000 claim and the claim was substantiated by the data in the report. I believe it was the Thernstroms who were the first to incorporate that finding into their work and present it to a broader audience. As you can imagine this went over like a lead balloon with the environmental determinists.
I didn’t download the report at the time because I thought that the URL would be stable so when I went to look for the report on another occasion I ended up with a dead link. ETS pulled the report from its website entirely. Then I thought I could get the same data from a more recent technical bulletin but ETS didn’t publish family income alongside race. The lesson, if you don’t like that answer that results, then don’t ask the question which produces that answer.
As for the $10,000 annual income figure, keep in mind that this data was from the mid-90s so you need to inflation adjust the income figure.
I haven’t perused the SAT technical bulletins of late but I wouldn’t be surprised to find that they have kept up the practice of not recording score-race-income data into one table for if they had the $10,000-$80.000 figure that is so often quoted would have been updated in the literature.
Testing…
Hey Camlost:
Longtime, no hear! It’s been awhile. Replies below:
“LOL, I see you’re trudging out the old Obsidian argument that there’s an HBDer somewhere who doesn’t (gasp) like black people (oh, the horror), so let’s try to circumvent or controvert the rational arguments put forth by anyone you don’t agree with.”
O: Oh boy, here we go. OK, let’s get something straight right here: I couldn’t care less what you or any other “HBD truthteller” does or doesn’t think about Black people or anyone else. What I find fascinating about guys like you is the degree you seem to go to “prove” how Blacks are inferior at just about any and everything worthwhile.
“The truth is that I like black people on a personal level, they’re typically pretty funny to hang out with (and especially to party with, provided that the situation doesn’t get too black).”
O: The problem with this is your notion of “tough love” sounds about as bad as the actual disdain/hatred.
“Obsidian just can’t seem to get grasp this concept and separate the personal from the scientific – when I once demanded an answer on whether he thought that it was possible that black males were rarely monogamous due to them not being selected for that trait (in the evolutionary sense) – he simply conceded with a “maybe” and then immediately went back to his diatribe about how I “hate” black people even though we’d already spent thousands of words talking about our common interests in classic rap music.”
O: OK, so lemme get this straight – you liking classical rap music=”you really, really do like Black people”? Are you serious?
And as for the question you “demanded” I answer – links, please? If anything, I’ve spent thousands of words telling guys like you just how much and committed Black Men were to their mates coming right up from under Slavery/end of the Civil War, all the way up to the mid-late 1960s (check the marital rates). Right there, this fact blows a serious hole in your “evolutionary trait” BS. You can thank me, later.
“At my age I’ve dropped all the PC bullshit and I come to sites like this to be very realistic about my thoughts about the link between genes and behavior, especially considering my transition from young hyperliberal to older business owner conservative.”
O: You’re going about it all wrong. Get therapy.
“And going to 13 years of mostly black public schools has taught me quite a bit about how blacks behave, in a whole variety of situations – call me the Jane Goodall of HBD when it comes to observing blacks in their natural environment. :-O”
O: No, I think such a “comparison” is an insult to the good professor – and her apes…
O.
Chucky,
we can still be friends, right?
http://stonerwithaboner.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/you-might-be-an-uptighty-alter-righty-if-you/
testing
I don’t think the average black reads 12 books in a lifetime
Hispanics are also the least likely people to read newspapers (printed or on-line). It is amazing how many liberal newspapers have supported open borders and unlimited immigraiton without understanding that none of those immigrants will be readers of the same newspapers.
I insist that our homeschooled 5 year old read 1 book per day. If she hasn’t done it during the day, she must complete a book for bedtime reading. Meaning that during the next year she will have read as many books as the median ______ over their entire life.
(Ok, so Dr. Suess is not the same as Dr. Zhivago but it makes for a good sound bite. Dr. Z is coming up eventually.)
CR wrote:
What does it matter? Mexicans or El Salvadorians – they bring the same burdens with them.
It matters because Hispanic isn’t a “race.”
“Hispanics are also the least likely people to read newspapers (printed or on-line). It is amazing how many liberal newspapers have supported open borders and unlimited immigraiton without understanding that none of those immigrants will be readers of the same newspapers.”
Your second sentence contradicts the first.
Trouble:
“race”…you’re funny. why are you here?